Availability of TOP Working Studs in US? - Page 2

I believe that several of the dogs mentioned may themselves be good working dogs (which can be heavily influenced by good training)- but when looking at the production record: facts are facts! Considering I own the above dog mentioned (Belschik) I have some what of a biast opinion towards him... There isn't a single dog in the country who has produced as well as he has- Belschik has produced dogs that have competed at the BSP, Belgium Nationals, WUSV, USA Nationals, North American, and the UK Nationals...not to mention the hundreds of Belschik grand puppies that are working in police departments all over the world. One thing that is on Belschiks side is that he is an older male- so we can see what he's produced over the years.... Time will tell with some of the other dogs mentioned as to what they will actually produce.

I agree, there is a definite need to know what a dog can produce- rather than just rely on competition scores. IMHO competition scores are just the first round of weeding out good breeding prospects from bad. After that I look to see if the genetics that made those dogs good can be passed on. Belschik has an incredible track record of reproducing these traits. I even checked with Bernhard Flinks to get his opinion of using him as a stud and found out that his (now ex) wife had bred to Belschik. Bernhard stated that this was one of the top 2 fastest dogs he had ever seen as well as a very hard dog. His comment was that if Belschik was in the states, breed to him. What I think we need here is to gather these same sort of stats on some of these other top males in the US. If you notice in Germany, its not always the top dog that becomes the top stud. I think we have a good genetic pool to choose from in the US, but that in general people breed to studs based on their laurels rather than the propogation of those genetic traits.

I agree, its hard to compare these other younger dogs to Belschik. They are dogs that are 4-5 years old and don't have near the record yet. They are showing great promise as producers already though. To say that they are not up to Belschik level is to say they are not the best working sire of all time. For a 5 year old dog to have the production record that Belschik does would put him in that catagory. My only experience with Belschik progeny was a couple dogs from the same litter. I know that he is a great producer,his record proves it. This thread has me thinking I better think more about him before its too late. My bitch is a Fado v Karthago grand daughter and I believe that crosses extremely well with Belschik.

I noticed his statistical info isnt avail in the database. I think many find this a wonderful tool, and especially useful when sibling and/or progeny informations comes in. Perhaps when time allows you that can be added:) D.L. Sherman www.naturalpetsource.net

D.L Sherman, which male are you referring to? Belschik? or another. Could you clarify which statistical info you are seeking exactly? Thanks :) Regards

Volan von der Daelenberghütte SchH 2,is available to an approved home only! Volan is the son of Belschik vom Eichen-Bruche and Rani von der Daelenberghütte. The combination of the bloodlines of Belschik and Rani produced two simply outstanding litters, the "V" and "X" litters "von der Daelenberghütte." An extremely attractive, powerful and masculine bi-color male, Volan is no exception to the quality found in those litters!! Volan will make an outstanding addition to any breeding program. He is in excellent health and needs an active home where he will get the attention and activity he deserves. He is social with welcome guests but is also an excellent guard dog. Price is $3500.00 + shipping. Serious inquiries please.

Volan von der Daelenberghütte SchH 2,is available to an approved home only! Volan is the son of Belschik vom Eichen-Bruche and Rani von der Daelenberghütte. The combination of the bloodlines of Belschik and Rani produced two simply outstanding litters, the "V" and "X" litters "von der Daelenberghütte." An extremely attractive, powerful and masculine bi-color male, Volan is no exception to the quality found in those litters!! Volan will make an outstanding addition to any breeding program. He is in excellent health and needs an active home where he will get the attention and activity he deserves. He is social with welcome guests but is also an excellent guard dog. Price is $3500.00 + shipping. Serious inquiries please.

**D.L Sherman, which male are you referring to? Belschik? or another. Could you clarify which statistical info you are seeking exactly? Thanks :) Regards*** Well, he was the dog in conversation but for any mentioned or others owners feel fall in that category. The data that this database can store is IMO very helpful. I can not always remember who has what hip score, which offspring are same parents or only one parent, this tool is an excellent way to become more *familiar* with the information. It is readily accesable and not a difficult program to use either:) D.L. www.naturalpetsource.net Of course always additionally like firsthand experiences as well.

DL, I have been lucky to see working progeny out of Belshik and was extremely impressed. I saw Xamm at the 2003 WUSV and liked the power and intensity of the dog. This was not pure training - this was genetics! This was a dog you noticed on the field due to his presence.

I am going to try and update as much of Belschik's production records on this site as possible... it is just very time consuming to go in and enter all the titles, etc. :-) but I'm sure it will be very helpful information. Yes, I agree that it is somewhat unfair to compare a 12 year old dog like Belschik to a dog that is merely 4-5 years old- as far as production records that is, but IMO it is better to go to a dog that has the production record and the age so that you can rule out potential genetic health risks that are not easily tested for in a younger dog. I guess it's all a matter of how much risk you want to take as a breeder, and what your ultimate goals are. It's pretty cool to read what people have to say about Belschik and these other dogs... :) David Kiewel d_kiewel@hotmail.com www.kiewelworkingdogs.com