What do we miss about the older bloodlines? - Page 4

Sigh.... I've intimately known some of the hardest dogs you can possibly imagine. Gildo vom Koerbelbach, yeah... I slept with him on the couch. Olko vom Baerenfang, Orly vom Baerenfang, Betzi vom Baerenfang... Fricka vom Baerenfang...

Some of ya'll have a funny idea about a "real" dog. Our dogs were always safe. They were always reliable around Kids, in the home, had an off switch, super temperament and strong nerve. Yet they also had their little weaknesses just like any other dog.

The main difference to my dogs today is that my dogs are more biddable and overall easier to handle. Other than that, I've got exactly what I wanted out of my dogs.

I had the privilege to grow up with the dogs I grew up with and know exactly what I want to see and what I don't want to see. Fact is, every dog has a weakness. Every single one of them! Even the great dogs of the past had them. People just don't ever want to talk about it...

Susie, so you think that WGWL dogs have the same drive level of the dogs of the past? Would over the top drive bred genetically for a dog created to be versatile utility dog possibly be a contributing factor to neuroses or am I just imagining these drives.

Just because I hardly if ever saw this level of drive in the past, maybe I really don't see it now and there are no neurotic issues. When the curtain first came down, I saw a lot of dogs that did remind me of dogs of the past..but now I realize that's not possible because those dogs were then and now is now. I give up, you guys win...see you on this subject next year.

 

Susie, sorry!...don't bother to respond to my last post. Things are better today and trending in the right direction. Y'all win...I get it! Take care.

Gustav, I agree there are dogs with neurotic issues today, but you also had dogs with issues in the past. Different issues, but issues.

Not all was great back then, not all is great today.

Personally, they more drive you have, they more prone to reactivity and neurotic behavior a dog is.

Less, sometimes is more.

But I do bother...

You complain about too much drive whereas others complain about not enough drive in modern dogs

One of the reasons police and army switched to Mals is because that breed ( besides being way cheaper ) does show "over the top" drives ( Maligators ) - faster to train, longer in drive. I don´t mind, but this was never the goal for "our" breed.

Sure there are some "over the top" dogs today, no doubt.
But - they are not the norm, most WGWLs are able to live a "normal" active life.
And in IPO WLs still are washed out because of lack of drive...

Who is wrong? Or are all of us right, just because of different personal experiences, and different goals?

I like Baerenfang´s statement: " Not all was great back then, not all is great today. "

 

 

 

You're right!

just like Ma was not hesitant to name outstanding specific dogs and kennels of yesteryear, can the " modern dogs " advocates be also bold and name a few specific dogs/ kennels/ lines. And why do you think these modern specimens/lines are outstanding?

Mithuna all your post seem to be about hard dominant old school dogs with high aggression . That buy your posts over the last while clearly do not have the knowledge nor experience to handle .Why do u think this is

there are plenty strong dogs and lines today, you just wont find them in the "fame zone " so to speak,
the highest scoring pointsdogs are the ones getting the fame and that is what most people run after, braggingrights

also important is that most of todays buyers dont want to and/or cannot handle a strong hard dog, basically the demand drives a breed into a certain direction

Gustav, you ask about old time nervy dogs, try the most famous one Fero zeutener himmelreich

mithuina, todays lines, I see lots of strong dogs over Baki and Uncas saltztalblick, dogs coming over konnie kornerplatz and various old czech lines, and sure im missing a bunch

Duke has it right, a lot of dogs aren't that famous, and even the dogs you originally named aren't that famous, it's just a single person/breeder remembering certain dogs they liked fondly and speaking of them. We all have those dogs in our region or country that no one would know but we know them to be good dogs. I could list off a few local dogs that I know to be strong, powerful, borderline out of control at times, but you've never heard of them and there isn't any video of them because they're just local dogs who aren't trained to a high enough level to have national/world recognition.

But...there are definitely strong lines and dogs today. No one can really argue with what Staatsmacht is doing, Janina, Vikar, and plenty more. The real recent dogs are too young to make a name for themselves as producers, but plenty have proven they can produce multiple world level dogs and real working dogs.