Help Me Get Inside This Dog's Head - Page 2

Sunsilver, I think your dislike of the 'breed' has clouded your thought process somewhat, 'cause I know you already know what builds a bond between dog and human: obedience work.  Put him through a couple of structured sessions each day when he's with you.  Between that, and some patience ('cause you said he's only been there about 4 or 5 times, which isn't very long or often at all, especially for a dog that has issues with the people he actually lives with...if the wife rejects him regularly, don't you think he's probably becoming conditioned to ignore her, hence women in general for the moment?)

Also, re the 'bared teeth'...it's not uncommon in the 'doodle' permutations (especially the Goldendoodles, as the trait runs pretty strong in a number of the Golden bloodlines) to see the submissive grin behavior, so be sure you're not mistaking an appeasement offering for resistance--if you're harsh with him when he's trying to give you a 'calming signal', it's just going to screw the poor creature up further then his owners already have accomplished.

As for the exercise end of things...if worst comes to worst, you could always leash him and have him trot alongside whatever motorized vehicle you've got access to (ATV, lawn tractor, etc.), and work him that way. Unless you've got a motorized treadmill, in which case you could set him up on that and get some additional walking/jogging time on him...

Good luck...when you get frustrated with this dog, remind yourself how chuffed you're going to be when you get through to him, get him to be responsive to you, and then get him to actually play with a toy or another dog! The poor thing needs help, that's for sure.

Hexe, the bared teeth have been accompanied by growling. Could be he has a thing about having his nails trimmed, as if you drop the paw immediately after he gives it to you, he won't bare his teeth. The owners want him groomed before Christmas, and I'm glad I won't be the one doing his nails!

Sunsilver,

I think too, you need to think of this dog as suffering separation anxiety. And I feel for the poor man/owner who is probably trying his best to appease his wife, and keep his beloved dog. I'm sure he is hoping you are the magic fix. I think like Kim, that you can have a relationship with this dog, but the bond is only for the owner. You can probably try to help the dog by diverting his anxiety into an activity or something. Yet, he will likely always become the best dog he can be only when his person comes to pick him up. Which he will at the end of the day, everyday. Not too much you can do to top that moment, when the dog's world suddenly makes sense again. Then they will go home to the "resentful of dog" wife. Eventually the owner will realize he hasn't solved his problem with his dog and his wife's interaction. He's giving his wife respite by bringing you the dog.

I think you need to talk to the owner about realistic expectations of what you can accomplish with his dog. I had a dog with separation anxiety and it is no picnic. They never get over it, but it can be managed better. And if they are allowed to live without their anxiety being exacerbated, they actually mellow with age. I know you are a very experienced dog professional, and hope you know I'm just trying to help you get inside the dog's brain, and this is only my humble opinion.

This show I mentioned, just for an illustration, well, the rescuer had the dog for a year. It tolerated her, was unruly and unfriendly and would never settle. When it's owner (a recovered addict) reclaimed her dog, it was a tearjerker to see the relief and joy, the instantaneous transformation of this dog from basketcase, to a well-mannered, beloved pet dog.

Beetree, wow! Fortunately, dogs that tend to bond with only one person are rare, but I think I have one here (the doodle).

The owner is very concerned about the dog, and when I asked him last night how his wife got along with it, he said she feeds it and cares for it as best she can, but can't walk it because it pulls, even when wearing a prong collar.

Without knowing all the facts here are my thoughts. The owner, and don't know how old the dog is, how long the owner has had the dog, how long the wife has been the wife and the whole humans/dog relation? It might appear the owner is 1. giving you the dog to rectify a situation that he either doesn't have the experience or the time to do? 2. Just plain wants you to fix the situation? 3.Is trying to APPEASE the situation and this is the best he can do? Honestly, it could be other things?

I won't comment on your business, the way you run a business. I'm not a business person in that respect. I hear the comments from other posters and feel a little both ways. But in my eyes, as a business owner you have the right to accept the dog or not. And you do have ? "obligations" ? to the others. But there is also an obligation to this dog.

I would look at the bigger picture....... is this short term/long term and figure a gameplan accordingly. If it's long term then I would pull up the owner and find out if he knows what makes his dog tick and attempt to duplicate some of those things. I would also attempt to figure out what makes him tick with you, if any thing? And start from there. Hopefully some constructive information comes from the owner and you have a direction to take?  

Advice to owner...get a new wife or get rid of the one you have and keep the dog and the baby.

Poor dog...<SIGH>

Seriously, (well, I would get rid of someone that didn't like my dogs, and I HAVE) perhaps if the wife and owner would be willing to learn how to properly train their dog so it did not pull and was more pleasant in the home, the wife would not feel so overwhelmed.  Sounds like the owner needs to take some responsibilty and work with his dog and wife so the dog is more of an asset and not a pain in the ass.  <SIGH>  Poor dog.

Sunsilver, I expect you're experienced enough to be able to recognize a threat growl, so obviously you'll want to be cautious as needed in this case.  That said, if the dog *gives* you his paw willingly, and then after you take it, you get the teeth baring and the growl, I'd still have to wonder if this was a submissive grin gone wrong--I've worked with several dogs which were grinners, but their owners had not been warned about this trait and therefore had been correcting the dog whenever he displayed the grin...eventually these dogs would growl as they grinned, because the grin is involuntary but they'd now been conditioned that it was going to be responded to by people with negative reaction instead of indifference or acceptance.  Wouldn't surprise me if this dog had learned the same thing.  :( 

If the wife's dislike of the dog is rooted in the fact that he 'out-mooses' her, that's absolutely understandable, especially if he was doing that while she was pregnant and it's continuing while she's trying to care for a baby.  Perhaps your work in teaching him proper leash manners can help reverse that situation, and will open the door to a better relationship between the wife and the dog.  (I can sympathize with being 'out moosed' by a big dog, as I'm dealing with it now with my 113# rescue--I'm still rehabbing the knee I had surgery on in August, and the other knee is shot, too, so the last thing I need is for this humongous moose of a dog to heedlessly charge past me in a narrow doorway and side-slam my newly repaired knee.  He's also not aware of where he puts those Clydesdale-sized hooves of his, so my feet are a mosaic of bruises, too. But he is getting better, with work and rewards and control.)

I suspect the doodle has underlying nervous issues hence the separation anxiety which is common with nervous kind of dogs.  I doubt the doodle is comfortable around your other dogs especially when left by the owner into a new enviroment.  It will take more than awhile for the doodle to feel comfortable.  I am pretty sure the doodle has issues at home as well eg. a follower.  When you pick up the lead, I bet he thinks you are taking him home.

I believe the quickest way to form a relationship with the doodle is to have the owner spend time with you and the dog together.  Then take the dog for a walk together so that the dog is accustom to you and the new place.

In the absence of the owner, let the doodle have his own space without the other dogs present (for now).  For the doodle , being left alone huddle in a corner with some bedding is better than overstimulation.  It will alllow the dog to settle slowly.  He can be with you in the same room but its better without the other dogs present until he is accustom to you.  Set a routine.  Take the doodle out for a walk and put him back.  In time, he will likely be more open to you and (perhaps) accept the presence of your dogs as well.   JMO and experience many years ago with a nervous dog.   Good luck.

Hexe, good call on the teeth baring! You could be right. It has really puzzled me because the dog shows no other signs of aggression, except when I reprimand him for barking. (And that could be a nervous thing, too.) And when I put him into a down, then rolled him on his side for the teeth-baring, he resisted me, but did not fight the way a truly aggressive dog usually does. I won't do that again: it's just going to make things worse.

Normally nervous dogs that come in here bark and pant and drool. This dog just stays quiet and mopes. He will find a place where he can watch the door, and lie or sit with his eyes glued to it. He doesn't seem frightened of the other dogs, and will let them sniff him, but beyond that, he is just NOT interested in them. He's been a hard one to figure out due to the lack of the usual stress signs I typically see with our boarders.

The doodle that came in for the weekend is more like the dog you (Hexe) describe, and much more typical of the other doodles I've had experience with. He's a bundle of energy. When you approach his cage, he's just quivering and dancing with joy, and you have to be careful he doesn't run you over when you let him out. The problem doodle is much calmer, and I'm sure, with a little work, could walk very well on the leash for the wife. He did test me when I first put him on the leash, but he realized pretty quickly I wasn't going to let him pull, and settled down. (Okay, having a prong collar DID help, and that's what they use on him at home for walks.)

My Shiloh is a dog that gets overwhelmed by new circumstances, and often won't take treats when she's feeling stressed. So, game plan is, I'm going to treat this guy as if he's like her. Some basic obedience work on the leash, treats for obeying, if he will take them. If not, use lots of praise instead, and only minimal corrections for not obeying. I will continue to try to get him comfortable with the other dogs, but maybe just one at a time. The goal for him being here is for him to get some exercise and stimulation, so he's calm at home when his owner returns from a very long day at work. I'm also going to suggest that the owner let me feed him, to help me form a relationship with him. I'll try to do the focus exercise some trainers use: you give the dog a treat every time it looks at your face. (If the owner brings the food, I can save money on treats...LOL!)

If I were away from home for 12 hours at a stretch, due to having to commute to a job, I wouldn't have a dog. But this guy does, and he obviously loves the dog, and is trying to do the best he can for it. If this doesn't work, the dog could well wind up in the pound. And he 's not the sort that's going to be easy to adopt, because he shuts down in an unfamiliar situation. :(  That is enough motivation for me to try my best to help. As Pirate's Lair said, "you have to look at it as a dog, and forget you don't like the breed!'