Bob Fox wants me to breed a dog with SEVERE hip dysplasia - Page 10

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Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 18 December 2018 - 20:12

Those hips are really bad...

by Jessejones on 18 December 2018 - 20:12

This female must not be bred. Period.

Firstly, the hereditary element, as everyone has been writing.

Secondly, also for the health of the dog herself.

Pregnacy will loosen ligaments and joints even more...through hormonal the extra body weight of carrying the pups and the birth.

Which perhaps may lead to a total Luxation of a hip joint. IMO


by Jessejones on 18 December 2018 - 20:12

Wanted to add...

Even if HD is not yet proven to have only a genetical hereditary component with multiple unknown genes...the loose ligaments and soft overly-stretchy connective tissues can be hereditary. Which by itself creates a higher probability of hd in offspring. IMO.


by Jessejones on 18 December 2018 - 22:12

Sorry I had to cut last post short...

If you have a pup born with genetic loose ligaments- in otherwords a dog with loose skin, not dry and tight....

.....who then is also environmentally challenged by whatever, like everyone has mentioned, for example: slippery swimming pool breeding pens with no carpet for tiny feet to gain pushing purchase to dam while feeding, slippery floors while growing, mechanical damage ie: crushed by dam and hips splayed out as Joan mentioned...hit by door jam...a mean fall....

Or overweight role-poly puppies instead of slim-line pups, or puppy kibble that is much too high in calories, too long on wrong puppy kibble, free-feed pups, or puppy food without the right ratio of protein and calcium : phosphorus ratio...too much calcium, leading to a too quick bone growth rate.

....or too much exercise and jumping to soon.

....then you might be creating the perfect storm in bad hip developement.

The radiographs also show a date in 2015 (but also one in 2018), is that correct? For a 14 mo old?

Anyway, I wish all the best in the OPs dealings with this breeder.

by Anne5928 on 18 December 2018 - 23:12

I never even noticed that. I will call them and ask. Her DOB is July 31st 2017

by Anne5928 on 18 December 2018 - 23:12

An imageI had 3 dogs done the same day. All three say the same. They have it right on all the OFA papers.


by Koots on 19 December 2018 - 01:12

Anne - you had 3 dogs OFA'd the same day? Are they all from Fox's breedings?

DO NOT let him bully you into breeding her.....tell him to F off, and don't play his games. Good luck, stay strong and be your dog's protector and advocate for her best interest.

by Prager on 19 December 2018 - 01:12

JJ: Wanted to add...

Even if HD is not yet proven to have only a genetical hereditary component with multiple unknown genes...the loose ligaments and soft overly-stretchy connective tissues can be hereditary. Which by itself creates a higher probability of hd in offspring. IMO.

prager: There you go! While supposedly there are no genes for HD per se does not mean that HD is not genetic. There are other characteristics which are genetic and if those are present then the dog becomes dysplastic. There are several ways we can measure hips probalility of HD;. They are the dog’s Norberg Angle (NA), OFA score, the distraction index (DI) and the dorsolateral subluxation score (DLS).
The genetic factors associated with CHD can be related to hip conformation, cartilage susceptibility to pressure forces, joint soft tissues or even to hormonal factors.
The genetic architecture of CHD is complex, as the many associated genes have a small individual effect. This fact makes the development of a marker-assisted accurate CHD diagnosis test difficult, despite intensive research worldwide.
It is interesting to note that the researchers believed that no measure alone completely represents hip morphology. The canine genome contains approximately 2.5 billion DNA pairs, considering that the problem is polygenetic - meaning more than one gene in combination with other genes must be present to generate HD it is no surprise that no one HD specific gene was so far discovered.
Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 19 December 2018 - 02:12

Are you guys actually kidding me?

How do you turn this whole thing into a discussion about whether or not HD is genetic or environmental. Thats entirely besides the point. The whole point is that Fox is unethical and threatening a person because she refuses to breed a dog with severe HD and those are seriously some of the worst hips in a GSD I've seen in a while.

The whole side discussion is entirely besides the point.

Get over yourselves for a moment and actually look at those pictures and look at what is being said!

by Rik on 19 December 2018 - 02:12

ok, I couldn't resist.

joan said "Rik, you are mocking the guy who started the OFA, but I guess he is not worth listening to..."

1. if HD was not primarily genetic, there would be absolutely no reason for OFA. it would be a waste of money and time and totally unecessary.

2. Maybe some people used unlined kiddy pools, I can't imagine anyone doing that as it would be very unsanitary, but it does sound good in an argument.

3. the SV, the organization founded by the founders of the GSD and, good or bad, has guided the GSD  for the past 100+ years recognizes HD as strongly influenced by genetics and requires confirmation of hip status for santioned breeding and to allow breeders to make informed choices.

4. The GSDCA also recoginizes and makes strong recommendations to choose HD free dogs in breeding.

I really don't even know what is being argued here.

for the novice, don't breed dogs with HD, don't accept that if you bought a dog that develops HD, that it is your fault.



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