Reply to Shtal (Interesting facts, for believers) - Page 24

Oli I dont think even GSD guy could pass that.  On some topics, I
might be able to (not religion tho')

Welcome back Guy.

Since the beginning of man there have been many gods and faiths, myths and magic, but one true god, not since the beginning of man.

Prove it.  Or can you? Therein lies a problem for you as well.  If you believe in the creation account (which you don't as you have stated), Adam and Eve were the first to walk the earth.  God was the creator, the one true God for that matter.  Idol worship came later on, and is mentioned in scripture numerous times as well both in the Old Law, and even in the new law.  Just as the one's who chose to worship idols were either punished by God, or in one way or another God showed his true power over the false gods.....which really weren't "real".  

Yes, 500 I say......  As mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15.

Moons I'm not trying to say anything, any better than those you have spoken to before.  That is never my purpose, nor will it ever be. I'm not here to out do anyone in any way.  Explain to me how I took the long way around? I know I missed answering certain questions as the format on this site wouldn't allow to make one full post, but in part I needed to explain certain things before I answered some of the questions.

GSDguy,

  I think the onus is on you to prove Christianity predates Hinduism, Shintoism or Buddhism.

Felloffher,  I will speak on that later today if time permits. I'm headed out in a few minutes to meet another client, and then I need to make a few stops out in town as well. So either this afternoon or evening I will show you where and how it does predate all of those.   It will be slightly lengthy however, but before I go now you must understand that Christianity was not always called "Christianity" (You'll understand what I mean and am referring to when I explain it later).  The scriptures as well as the times (years) in which they were written will show you what I mean.  But for now, I need to get going.

Guy,
out do anyone?
You couldn't even keep up with my grandfather.
Those were simple questions that you cannot answer because you do not know the answers.
No amount of scripture will produce one.
It's not in your book.

Yes 500 I say.... because it's written in this infallible book that everyone knows to be the truth.
If 500 people saw a man rise from the dead, don't you think that would have kicked off this religion much sooner and with much more fanfare.

I will offer you one simple fact,
Yours is not the only book and was not the first of it's kind.

The other most important point I will make is that people have been killing other people in the name of these religions since before they became religions.
Like brother killing brother since all share the same beginning through Abraham.
This is the glory of Gods.

I am through suffering fools, at least here on this thread.

Moons.

Inductive reasoning is useful to come up with ideas, when there are answers that need to be or want to be found.  It can give a general direction, point to something specific, as a pattern.  It can never, in itself, give concrete answers.  Similarly, deductive reasoning can also pinpoint specific things, but can also not be used as an arbiter of truth, because it's predicated on inductive reasoning, which could be flawed.  Using both, one could arrive at a hypothesis and use measurements to confirm or deny the premise.  No part of science is used independently of the others, they all mesh, they all confirm each other when something is said to be proved or proven to be correct.  All branches of science that deal with any specific object will verify, when able, each others' findings.

So your logic is flawed to just stop at "You're using different reasoning." because any reasoning, if at least approaching correct, will agree with the rest of the "set".  Both will compliment each other, head in the same direction.  I use inductive reasoning all the time, every time I make a choice as to which color makes me happy, or what I consider pretty.  That's my artistic side.  Science goes where the evidence is, it does not make moral judgments.  It determines facts, gives the results that we have found, so far.  When questions are raised when something doesn't fit, it is investigated.  If the claim is discarded, it is because it lacked evidence or results in order to be validated.  Not one of the "Creationist" claims have been validated because they are ridiculous.  The evidence confirms that evolution is true, even though it's not complete and may never be complete.  It's complete enough and it has set us in new directions, that are working because of evolution.  Medicine, for one.

But the Creation or Intelligent Design promoters seek to deny evidence by changing word meanings.  When used in certain context, the words mean what they're trying to say, but that's not how they're being used.  Case in point: "It's just a theory.".  The Creationists have people convinced that there is a conspiracy in the scientific community for promoting "theory as fact.".  It IS fact!  That's what you're not grasping, the evidence has been presented in many courts and the evidence always wins.  Creation has never won.  It doesn't matter what the case was about, Creationists have been told that what they're promoting is NOT science, but dogma!  FACT.  The courts say Evolution is FACT, no matter how many temper tantrums you take because it doesn't agree with your story.  I guess it's kind of like finding out Goldilocks was really a brunette!  There goes the title!

GSDguy, I don't even know where to begin with you.  I guess a good place is, it terrifies me that you are responsible for young minds.  Have you not even gotten to the flaws in Pascal's Wager?  Seriously, you're going to throw that out there?  Do you know how ridiculous that is?  Have you never investigated the logical flaws, even by virtue of the wager itself?  That's elementary school logic, street kids learn it by age four.  You've obviously led a pretty sheltered life, I'm sorry.  And if you got through college with that handicap, you should sue your school.  It's not a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of information and education.  Intelligence comes in when you are presented with the evidence and you can justify denying it.  I'd say your situation is both and that's scary.  It always amazes me that some seemingly otherwise intelligent people can suspend logic along with certain blocks to proof.  Suspending reality is not the same as proving non-reality.  Nobody is putting Christianity through the ringer, more than Christianity itself.  If it continues on the course it's going, it will implode within 25 years.  You are forcing a hand, and in doing so, you are pulling the rabbit out of the hat and once out, it cannot be put back in.  Think about that.

That's why Atheists terrify you, because they have actual evidence that their lack of belief is more grounded in reality.  They are the adults in the room.  They can't lose and you know it.  Until you can produce a God, or at least a bit of evidence, other than emotional, your numbers will dwindle.  I don't necessarily see that as such a bad thing at this point because if it weren't for religion, there would be at least a bit of peace in this world.  Or at the very least, the end of self-induced slavery.  On the other hand, I kind of like the fact that people can hold their own beliefs, believe in things, just because they want to.  I like dreamers, they're great people!  It's the ones with the nightmares that scare me :)  I have a wonderful imagination and I'd like to see some of mine come true too, but I know the difference between imagination and reality.  When you feel the need to chain people to your way of thinking, because your God will punish YOU, then it becomes a problem.  Nobody is stopping you from living the way you want to, so why would you presume it's your right to tell others that they can't decide for THEMSELVES, how they should live THEIRS, as long as they're not forcing YOU into it?  Compulsion is never a good thing, ever.

Travels you just might be on that journey on the river.... denial. I sure am  done here. You don't get it, won't get it, and I'm not into the rude parts on here . The repeated, withering accusations. Not worth it really. You think you are better because you are an aethiest. Isn't that lovely. ~

Back off of GSDGuy08, too, he has had a severe personal shock and is too polite to say.  If this conversation ends here, it wasn't because you scared any body off. Hope you don't mind I said that Guy, don't feel you need to explain yourself to any body right now.

Peace and out.

GSDtravels,,,,..lol I am sorry, but you are starting to post like Shtal. It will not be you many words that convince anyone,,,As a matter of fact some of the wisest people I know say very little..

Bee...Nice post!..You took words right out of my mouth,,


Fools speak many words, but have nothing to say. The wise sit humbly and quietly in comparison, for they know that there is more substance in action than in words alone.

I never said I was an Atheist, now did I?  I'm telling you facts and I have not taken any side, but neutral.  Christians don't like neutral, they have to be on top.  Like I said, Christianity will end up being its own worst enemy.

Ok Travels, forget the definitions of words because your doing exactly what you said I'm doing - it's a circle jerk.

Explain to me DNA. Let's talk about the human. DNA is coded information. Are you telling me the complexity and functions of the genetic code of a multicellular human was coded spontaneously ?

If you say yes, tell me how in the world is that possible when todays technology cannot even compete chemically with the magnitude of universal conceptual information stored in 2 teeny weeny tiny nucleotides ? 

And THEN - THEN we have RNA - DNA is transcribed and read by RNA. Now tell me how does that work without "intelligent design" or a "creator". Just happened by blind chance or happened out of chaos ?