How do you price you working line puppies? - Page 3

very true, IMO opinion folks should save the slick marketing write ups and just post video. If your dog has powerful grips, over the top ball drive and natural aggression (like every one claims, simply post video of training) I only wish there was a seperate title in sch. where only the strongest dogs survived

LOL not everybody knows what to look for watching a dog work though. They are the ones that buy the titled dogs, thinking that is best.

I'm still learning myself. I mean how many people see the dog on the sleave and think thats good, but actually the dogs posture is saying "avoidence" and he is barly on the bite? People need to have someone who knows to show them what to look for.

I agree that titles don't make a dog better genetically....but, the work going into them and the product of them shows us the dogs strengths and weaknesses. Anyone who's done this for a period of time has seen a dog that starts real strong, and then when you see the control and demand put on the dog it crumbles. This was exposed by the requirement of the work going into titles that otherwise may not have been seen. Same as the protection dogs...I've seen lots of protection dogs that are very strong looking, until you try and control that power, then it falls to pieces. Should a dog be bred, just because it has titles? Absolutely not! But as breeders we should use the system to evaluate the dog and make a decision. Some people train for titles just because they enjoy it and time with their dog. It doesn't mean that particular dog is now breed quality....but someone just looking at a dog and testing it cannot have the same grasp as to what that dog truly is as the person that takes it to a SchH3. People use this as an excuse to get away from the work of doing the titling.

Not everyone has the $ time or interest in Sch. Myself included. If I am going to train and spend that much time and energy, I'm going to do it in the sport I so choose. Sch isn't it yet so many people still cling to the idea that if it aint Sch it aint sh**. Though if I am to breed in the future it will be more aimed at Police dogs than sport. Not to say they wont do well in sports too.

Back years ago a friend bought a 7000.00 ScHh 3 male beautiful dog. But when we went walking at night and needed protection he failed us! He would not bite unless there was a sleeve or water hose (loved to bite it) this is when I decided I wanted a "True" protection dog. I am not saying that they all are like that BUT I saw this first hand and said from then on " MY dogs will protect reguardless of the sleeve. I too was all wrapped up in titles but the more you sit back listen and watch the more you learn. As many people have already stated there are many dogs that are pushed in to titles so they can be bred. Even thou they have weak nerves or temperaments. I do have tapes of my dogs working for the reasons that if you want to see them work you can. There are many breeders that can say this or that but prove it is what I say. My dogs are not the "Best" but they are not poor either. They are held back only because I am still learning. So does that make them any less?

Here here Ek same boat.

In a lot of peoples eyes it sure does.

And most of these people are buying titled dogs because???? They want to bred and make the money talk about cutting corners!!! I would rather have a dog that can protect me and my family then to have a sport title on a 5c piece of paper. That means more to me personally.

I didn't say anything about buying titled dogs. We were talking about buying puppies OUT OF titled dogs. And no one said titles mean a better protection dog. A lot of people wouldn't know a dog that would truly protect them though from a defensive shit bag ready to show flight. You're dog may very well protect you, but that doesn't mean he is breed material. Too may people that don't know there ass from a whole in the ground are breeding. Plain and simple, if you're breeding GSD's that aren't hip and elbow'd, titled (KNPV, Schutzhund, etc.) and breed surveyed, you're not following the SV on how these dogs should be bred and you are not helping the breed....