The real dogs - Page 4

Real dogs DO NOT need tricks or extensive training to defend its property or owner. AND they can do the sport if close attention is paid. The nerve is getting too strong in a lot of the sport dogs and some sharpness and attitude have been the price.

ANA I think maybe the dog you bred your bitch to comes from our club north of Min. If so I helped the handler in all phases and they both had a great deal of sucess due to talent on each end of the leash

Thanks flipfinish for the reponse

realcold, we may not be speaking of the same dog. The dog I bred to is in Canada not Minnesota. I like your points about not needing tricks or extensive training to defend its property and owner. I dont think Zeus was ever trained to do that and he does it seriously with or without the owner there. I see him and I dont know if I see sharpness but excellent temperament and strong nerve and if he does not know you or if you get in his space he has a real F U attitude. I took video of him and other dogs the night before a trial in MN. Last week I showed it at an upstart USCA club meeting and 2 top regional trainers who saw the video could not believe what they saw and how serious he really was. Both plan on breeding to him real soon for a couple of their own club members who want a more serious dog because their prey dogs just do not have the intensity and club members are losing interest in the sport.Most people could not believe that club helpers are willing to stand in front of a dog who on video looks like he could care less about the sleeve. I spent 2 nights at their house and although I played with him and we got along great he always kept some sort of tabs on where I was and what I was doing because he knew I did not really belong there but his owner said it was OK. I hope I can get even a bit of that from his puppies with my female.

ANA Ithought you may have been the person who was here the way you descibed Zeus. Yes he is what you say.

Sorry realcold I guess we are speaking of the same dog. How did you help the owner? If so you must be in the same club or are you connected to the breeder in Europe.

ANA I am the training director in the club. Zeus's program was to take things nice and quiet and slow so that he could think during his foundation. After his early bites he would carry the sleeve to the far end of the field and do a sit hold so that he could unload a bit. Later he would start at the end of the fielf and then start moving back up field where he would then do another sit hold. It took a while but with progression he eventually sat in front of the helper until outed. At that time we worked him normal which at our club is both drives trying for balance. With him that is very little movement as he easily loads. (what I call sharpness)

Hello Bob(I guessing). Your name came up at the USCA meeting as we plan on inviting Zeus and his owner down in the spring and we were hoping the trainer could come down and give us some tips with him as well. We felt it would be a good way for beginners to see the end product of good work and to keep them motivated when things get tough or challenging by seeing the kind of dog they could end up with. Congratulations by the way on the great work with both of them. A cynical guy said you guys must have bought his BH because there is no way that dog would pass a temperment test but I stayed with him for 2 days and saw him after he was worked down here and it just made me realize some people are just full of hot air. Before I decided to breed to him I spoke with a military contractor who also heard of him and then tested him and he actually said "dont be stupid, breed to him." and this guy is critical of every dog he works. This is my first breeding and I already have 6 deposits and 3 more people on a waiting list for people who have heard of the male and want his puppies so boy am I glad I used him. I see how you say you trained him and the owner also described things in detail but we all agreed it must have been very difficult to calm him down and teach him because on the video and when I saw him he goes really extreme. I spoke to a few people who said it wont be possible to keep him under control and calm as he gets older and tougher and the owner was lucky he titled him at such a young age while he was manageable. Do you think this is true? Even if it is I was told that the best dogs to breed to dont necessarily be the best dogs in the sport.

HI REALCOLD. CONGRATULATIONS ON WHAT YOUR PROGRAM ACHIEVED. FANTASTIC WORK AND IT IS REALLY NICE TO SEE SOMEONE GUIDE AND HELP ANOTHER ACHIEVE SPORT TITLES WITH WHAT MOST WOULD CONSIDER A NON SPORT ORIENTED DOG. I HOPE YOU GUYS HAVE THE SAME SUCCESS WITH OUR EVA. I BELIEVE EVERYONE AND ESPECIALLY NEW HANDLERS WITH REAL DOGS REALLY BENEFIT BY HAVING EXPERIENCED TRAINING DIRECTORS HELP THEM AND I DON'T JUST MEAN IN THE SPORT. I AM CONVINCED THAT WITHOUT THE TIME AND WORK BOTH THE OWNER AND HIS WIFE AS WELL AS THE THUNDER BAY CLUB AND ESPECIALLY REALCOLD PUT INTO KEEPING A REAL DOG SPORT FOCUSED THERE COULD BE UNCONTROLLABLE PROBLEMS. ANA MY ONLY WARNING TO YOU IS THAT ZEUS OWNER HAD GREAT EXPERIENCE HELPING HIM AND I WOULD SUGGEST THE SAME BE CONSIDERED FOR HIS PUPPIES. THESE DOGS ARE REAL. THEY DO NOT DO IT AS A GAME AND THE POTENTIAL FOR A DISASTER FROM STUPID PEOPLE DOING STUPID THINGS LIKE TRYING TO GET SPERM FROM THE DOG WITH ONLY HIS WIFE THERE AND NOT THE OWNER HAVE CAUSED SOME REAL INJURIES. IF PEOPLE ARE USED TO HOUSE PET SHEPHERDS AND THEY GET A REAL STRONG DEFENSIVE DOG THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH ISSUES THEY ARE NOT USED TO DEALING WITH AND DISASTROUS PROBLEMS CAN RESULT SO PLEASE BE CAUTIOUS OF THIS. ANA IF YOU LOOK AT WHO IS BREEDING TO THIS MALE YOU CAN SEE WHAT THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE GOING TO GET. VERY STABLE TEMPERAMENT IS IN THE CARDS BUT SO IS EXPLOSIVE, REAL, UNFLINCHING AGGRESSION. THE PUPPIES OWNERS BETTER BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE PUPPIES WHEN THEY ARE NO LONGER PUPPIES.

REALCOLD I KNOW MY BOSS HAS BEEN IN CONTACT WITH YOU BUT I HAVE A QUESTION. ZEUS NOW HAS A SCH3 AND THE OWNER AND YOUR CLUB ALL LIKE TO COMPETE SO IN THE SPORT WORLD DO YOU HAVE A GENRAL PLAN ON WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO TO GET THE DOG MORE POINT ORIENTED IN THE FUTURE WHILE STILL STAYING CALM AND KEEPING HIS GENETICALLY NATURAL BULLY BEHAVIOR, I AM SURE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, UNDER CONTROL. YOU MADE ME A BELIEVER IN YOUR PROGRAM WITH WHAT YOU ALL ACCOMPLISHED WITH A DOG IN YOUR CLIMATE AT LESS THAN 2 1/2 YEARS OLD. BUT WITH A REAL DOG GETTING INTO THE PRIME OF HIS LIFE WHAT NOW?