The real dogs - Page 2

In the real world most dogs (including GSD's) realize it is tabboo to bite a human. Even in top sport it is easy to equipment train your dogs. I have seen many people grab a sleeve and let their own dog take a bite. To really protection train your dog it has to be trained with the proper level of suspicion and aggitation. This is a much more serious way of training and greatly increases the risks of unwanted bites from your dog. They are just dogs not humans. I have had one male working line GSD who would bite anyone who spoke too loudly around me or made a quick move. He would not bark nor growl or even act unfriendly and your first clue would be a deep rumble in his chest as he lunged in for a bite. I had to keep him away from people. A friend bought him who was a trainer of drug dogs and needed a dog they could depend on, and he did so. I never did bite work with this male. Selection of a pup is critial and the more time you spend with it helps strenghten the bonding and chance it will defend you.

bluesky In a real life drama and your screaming and fighting. I would think most decent GSD's would attack the intruder. Most people would never take a chance knowing you have GSD's in the house.

My male is trained with a guy who knows how to use real agression and agitation. My dog is very serious, although not when I am not around obviously (see above) but he is safe around my kids. He has been trained to bark first, then if they dont go away the bite is next. I tested him one day at a park (neutral ground) my 6'2" brother in law was standing there and I asked him to "stare down" my male with intent to do harm. My male went from happy go lucky to "Oh Really, lets rumble" in half a second. Funny to watch big tuff man jump back like that. BUT, as soon as the threat was gone and my brother in law went back to normal, he was fine. They even played together. So it is all about training in my mind, but you need good genetics.

I have said before, Schutzhund is a sport and is not an indication that your dog will protect you or yours. It is like a football player. Just because a football player is a monster on the field, it doesn't mean he will join you in a bar fight or chase down the guy climbing out of his neighbors window. He may and is capable if he does, but he may not also. A good NATURAL protector dog (one that has been living with a family and adopted the family as HIS/HER family, and has nerve), is the best home and family protector in the dog world. Dogs trained to attack or bark or bite a sleeve, may or may not step forward in the true hour of need. Make your dog a member of the family, praise him when he is suspicious of strangers (don't yell at him for barking at the mailman or neighbor), tell him when it is time to "quiet", then praise him when he does quiet, teach him/her that children are children (he will already know, because it is inherent in adult dogs not to harm puppies (they know the difference in ages)). Spending money to have someone teach your dog to protect your family is a waste of money. It is mostly used to show off your monster to friends and family. Use your money and time to find a dog with nerve and confidence. With praise at the right times, the rest will take care of itself. Yes, there are Schutzund dogs out there that will take you to the ground if told to do so, but there are more that will run around you in circles looking for the toy (sleeve). There are also mutts in the dog pound that will take you to the ground if you mess with their "family".

I had a female that her territory started at the stairs to the deck that lead to the front door. You could get out of the car in the driveway, she was friendly but when you started for the house she would beat you to the stairs and do bark and hold at the bottom of the stairs. UPS use to leave the packages at the top of the stairs and as they walked back to their truck she was once again friendly, pet me dog. Now kids could walk right in no problem and most women. However she did bite one of the K-9 handlers who tried to come down the stairs, luckily I was just walking out the door and called her out but he was still bleeding all over the place. She also bit one of the SWAT guys that was picking me up for a raid, He was luckey he had all his gear on so she did not puncture but left him with a huge bruise. But once you were invited in you could go in and out all you wanted. Funny thing is she was not my police dog he could care less if you came in, but on the street don't make a move towards me or he would have you. mike

Hey Do right, Paying someone isnt a waste of money. Ever heard you should not go into battle with an untested firearm? I would not rely on any dog uless he was "battle tested" and passed. Otherwise what happens when you need him and he doesnt respond? I saw a police dog on a "wildest videos" show that allowed his handler to get attacked and only bite once, weakly and let go. The attacker got the police officers gun and if the policeman hadnt gotten to his backup weapon he would have been killed. That was a police K-9, so you never really know. But my home protector is not ever going to be my "sport" dog.

Do Right, As usual a beautiful post, and you and DesertRangers cleared that up perfectly for me, thank you both! Krista blueskyekennels@msn.com

Even some police dogs out there are not trained properly for real life. Train the way you fight and all will be good.

A GSD will attempt top stop a man with no training IF four conditions exist: 1) the GSD has a normal and correct temperament according to the standard and what Captain Von Stephanitz required; 2) there has been a deep and normal bonding that has taken place between the GSD and the care giver/owner who thus comes to be regarded as the GSD's master, which usually takes at least one month of love and good care, feeding, etc. 3) the dog believes that there is a real and mortal threat to his master or family members actually occuring and senses a situation where total "evil" will be unleased without his intervention on behalf of his beloved master; or 4) the GSD has become attached to his territory (the masters dwellings, his usual places he is placed during the day or night which can be where his master takes him or the actuakl presence of the master. Most folks who have become a serious mortal threat to the "master" and who have taken a hard bite turn white and go into shock, or at least bleed a lot and are weakened. A typical GSD can generate 900-1200 psi per bite directed to the canines and/or molars, this can break bones and generate severe lacerations. Anyone who has been seriously bit will have an impaired ability to fight back. The scariest GSDs I have ever seen are the French ring sport (brevet) GSDs who love their masters to the Nth degree. Any intruder who wants to deliver sserious harm to the masters of these GSDs are in for the fight of their life and very quickly, too. And its not that easy to shoot a GSD when one breaks ina home at night. An agile GSD can cover 25 feet in about 1.3 seconds and deliver its first bite. A trained brevet dog GSD can deliver multiple full body bites in rapid succession. It's a good thing a normal temperamented GSD exercises civility and restraint, is level headed and has an inborn sense of judgement and appropriateness, while yet being willing to defend and/or fight only when really necessary. Any deficiency in these four areas, especially the first three, limit the GSD's willingness or ability to protect his master and the premises of the GSD and the master. This is my view.

Flip. I can not disagree with your statement but I wasn't saying anything about going into battle. Of course the military would not use a "family protector" nor would a police department. I'm talking about your home. No, I don't need to test my girl to reassure me. If she doesn't, she doesn't. Even trained dogs can fail to do their duty. Previous VA rated dogs get disqualified during the BSZS for not biting or not stopping. There are no guarantees with animals. Lovable dolphins sometimes attack humans. I'm just saying why spend a lot of money and possibly get disappointed at that critical moment, when you can not spend a lot of money and have the same odds of disappointment or success. I believe in training dogs for military, police and sport. I don't believe in bite training for home protection. Imagine if your dog makes a mistake and kills the child skipping school in your garage. If the dog was trained to attack intruders, you are up a creek without a paddle in civil court (and possibly criminal court). If your dog was not professionally trained to bite, you at least have one paddle with you up that creek, and there will absolutely not be any criminal charges, without previous warnings of some sort about your dog.