Cant a Good dog (Show line) be Sable? - Page 4

The ones that I have been around had very strong nerves. For me if you don't have good nerves you have nothing. I spend alot of my time selecting a puppy checking the nerves not only of the pups but of the parents. After I feel nerves are good then proceed to look at drives and structure with color being last. Not that this is perfect just the way I do it.

Has anyone ever seen a good quality white? They may exist but I have never seen one. I do admit that I have not seen very many in my lifetime but the ones I have seen were not high quality.

Depends what you mean by good quality. I have seen a couple white shepherds with hardly any drive but very good overall pet dogs. One was a very nice service dog, calm and well behaved but I have no doubt he would have protected her. I have not seen as as much of the fear issues in whites that I associate with most American lines. The white shepherd health database is one of the best and puts everyone else to shame. People actually admit what faults their dogs have so they can choose better breeding partners!

Changer, While that's good that folks admit the faults, why are not admiting to the "white coat" fault and spaying and neutering for it ? Not being contemptuous seriously asking the ? looking for the answer. not to say that every dog with a little or should I say more forgiving fault should be spayed/neutered, But White is serious "DQ" fault. To respond to Desert Rangers, while I have not seen very many of them, I can say the ones I have seen have all displayed a very weird temperament (not trustworthy) a temperament where I was nervous in the dogs presnece and it takes alot to un nerve me, I am more cautious of the "Fear Biter" than any other aggression I see on a daily basis at the shelter. Give me a dog that will come at me strait on over a fear biter anytime. I can deal with the "confident" dog, but the fear biter will "get me" when I make a mistake. I know how to work around the confident dog, But not the "fear biter" They are spooky. That is all I can add about the whites I have seen, Other than structure is off, of those I have seen they are Always oversized, very oversized. waaaayyy Oversized.

Echo, the White GSD folks don't see the color as a fault at all, but rather as the distinguishing characteristic of what has really become a sub-breed. Their dogs are disqualified from AKC shows and SV events, but are recognized as GSDs by the UKC, and can be shown there and in American Rare Breed Association shows. And they can participate in AKC obedience if registered as GSDs. As for size, the ones I've seen do run around 10% bigger than what even their own standard calls for (24-26" for males). Nothing as grotesquely oversized as say a Shiloh, but males that are around 100-110 lbs. Temperament-wise, I've known a couple who were protection-trained and were competent if not high-drive protectors, and also a couple of just plain nice pets. I've also known several nerve-bag fear-biters who displayed inappropriate aggression and were absolutely untrustworthy. I'd never want one for myself. Given that they've been in-bred and line-bred so much as a separate type I don't think they should ever be allowed back into regular GSD registries, but it's no big deal to me if they are recognized as a separate breed.

Echo, The white shepherds are becoming a separate breed and the ones I've seen have been bred white out of white, not just a white recessive popping out of normal colored shepherds. The post above explains it well. Like any shepherd, you get all ranges of temperament.

I have never seen an adult sable with white toenails, regardless of how light the coat color. I have, on the other hand, seen a LOT of black & brown dogs with white toenails, feet, patches on their chests, and even BLAZED FACES ! (This last from Buck von der Pfalz, son of Illya Schwartzen Zwinger no less...) If I, and three other breed wardens & tattowers, hadn't known the very consciencious breeder of that litter so well we would've sworn some off-breed dog had gotten to the female. It never showed up again in the progeny of the one female kept back, titled, breed surveyed and subsequently bred from that litter. Of course that female did not have any white markings. Just when you thought you'd seen EVERYTHING... LOL

Changer, I understand that they are breeding whites to whites and have been for a long time, But in doing so they are narrowing the gene pool dramatically. Every now and then an outcross of a white "pop up" has to be added in right ? I guess what I am saying is why are they breeding white to white full knowing that white is a DQ fault ? I just don't understand why you would breed two faults together on purpose ? As far as them becoming they're own breed, I strongly disagree with that as well I would Sables being they're own breed, as well as showline being they're own breed, as well as working line being they're own breed, THEY ARE ALL GSD's !!!! Some with more preffered, colors, more preffered structure, more preffered drives, But ALL are GSD

I guess I should repoint the question Why would you purposely breed a dog with the same fault to each other ?? Maybe that is a better way of putting it. not trying to be rude really want to get it.

>>Why would you purposely breed a dog with the same fault to each other ?? Well...you'd have to ask them. But clearly there is some sort of a market for these dogs; a "well-bred" White GSD "show prospect" pup can command $1,000 to $1,500. So the breeders are making or at least not losing money supplying the public's demand for them - and I'd guess that's a significant part of the charm for the breeders. >>THEY ARE ALL GSD's !!!! In theory, yes. But in practice, since the SV grants them zero recognition and the AKC only lets them appear in Obedience, they have already become a de facto separate breed - not because the White GSD folks wanted to be, but because they were excluded and were forced to be if they wanted to breed, have a standard, do conformation shows etc. It's basically a done deal at this point.