How would you improve the GSD of today? - Page 7

Can we keep this simple!? As someone has already said,"enforce the established rules". The GSD is a working dog. When did gaiting, deep pigment and red color, overshadow working ability? TSB must be meaningful! Perhaps three judges observing the performance of the grip work at the KKL, with the average of two judges being the result. Sch 3 does not mean a whole lot either. The attack out of the blind was so telling. Why and where did it go? How about a gunshot with the attack on handler, or long grip. Kyle

Dear Gooner, a cross-over dog is the exceptional GSD which can win (oplace highly) in Bundessieger profung or zuchtschau (confirmation showring). These are often referred to as the "Total German Sheopherd" which is good looking, good moving, and of correct temperament. There are some who obtained the label (title) universal sieger and someof these are quite worthy, and there are some BSP dogs who are shown occasionally in zuchschau and place nicely. There are some V-rated in show BSP dogs who are only rarely not shown in zuchtschau since their owners are so committed to working trials that they don't care much about zuchtschaus (even when their dogs could place very competitively and repeatedly in zuchtschaus if they competed. There are some working line BSP dogs that are koerklassed as I who just don't get a chance in the schopwring because their owners have no interest (this is a loss for the breed). In years past Larry Filo had a couple V rated in show males who were some very competitive dogs in BSP. I don't know if he still has any. But there are probably a significant number of very worthy BSP dogs which could esily become successful cross-over dogs if their owners were interested in zuchtscahu competition. These dogs are there and some are very worthy as studs (and have great pigment, most with deep black sable, but a few black and tans, each very acceptable). Also there are always some top ranked zuchtschau dogs (V and higher) which have great working temperament (and what I consider correct temperament). It is established fact that Mutz Pelztierfarm himself had optimally correct and exceptional working temperament and freely gave this to his progeny. Other notables were Johnny Reihnhalle and Jupp Hallerfarm. There have been many, many zuchschau dogs over the years that had and also produced fabulous and correct temperament. And any breed warden will tell you that the youth sieger Eros Luissenstrasse was a very correct dog temperament wise and produced it in many cases. VA Bax Luisenstrasee was reputed to be very correct in temperament and produced it. VA Enzo Buchhorn and his excellent some Nero Norbachtal have very correct temperament and produced it. There have been a significant number of V-rated or higher w.German zuchtschau dogs imported into USA and Canada who have very correct temperament. Let's face the facts, there are many zuchtschau dogs who could compete very nicely in BSP if their owners cared about the sport in any fashion less than meeting a "minimum requirement" for the show ring and engaged in professional training beyond what is required to qualify and pass the courage test, etc.

Dear Gooner (part 2): And of course there are a significant number of BSP dogs that could compete nicely in the showring if their owners had any real interest beyond BSP (very few care at all about the confirmation showring). If one who has w. Germ showline blooded female and wants to breed to a BSP based cross-over dog to increase the quality of temperament but still for the showring, it is probably best if the bitch's coloring is very rich black and red (or "braun" as the Germans say) and she has great and correct movement with a short back and short loin, because BSP dogs typically regress back quickly to deficient angulations and too much length, and even rich sables can be a showring disadvantage. It always comes down to the knowledge and analytical skills of the breeder and/or buyer of the GSD. And one must always be careful about generalizing because there are always exceptions (yes, there are even some American Bloodlined dogs with corect temperament, albeit much less statistically). BSP participants usually emphasize working ability to the loss of confirmation showring looks and correct movement. Zuchschau participants usually emphasize confirmation showring looks and correct movement (while often overlooking the straight back part of the standard)while underemphasizing temperament and Schutzhund training while still meeting minimum standards. American showring particvipants usually emphasize side gait and neglect proper construction, proportions, color and temperament. But there are always exceptions!

Gooner (part 3): You say you would like to see one Sieger per year a winner of BSP. I agree, wouldn't that be terrific for the breed. Many want the total German Shepherd which is the best of both worlds, zuchtschau and bundessieger profung, but its hard to juggle between these two worlds. I have been told by folks much more knowledgeable than myself about the breeding and showing of GSDs in Germany that to be competitive in either Zuchtschau or BSP reguires a total commitment to one or the other and that it is very difficult to have both. Perhaps the zuchtschau judges need to give more weight to proper temperament and ability to produce it, and perhaps the BSP judges need to give more weight to confirmation. Something to think about. And of course each individual breeder can choose which preferences he or she has and can then make appropriate breeding choices to produce what they consider the Total German Shepherd.

Several ideas from both camps have been suggested. I came across a website that portends to quote Max vom Stephanitz. I am of the belief that we should strive to breed toward the established standard and thoughts of the breeds founder. http://maxvstephanitz.homestead.com/mvs_conformation.html There is another post stating new rules and penalties for altering a dogs coat. What the hell is this all about? This is not improving the breed! Max von Stephanitz was not concerned about coat color other than white. Kyle

The Importance of correct mvement (sidegait and coming and going) in the GSD in both working and show lines: This is very important, yes even for the working line dogs. Here's why. The GSD is a gaiting animal and will tire out quickly and easily if grossly short of angulations at both ends, and/or has an improper structure such as short or steep croup, or is too long in back and/or loin. AQ long dog must expend more energy to move due to the geometry at play. If there is not an efficient, smooth, balanced flow of movement between the front and rear the dog is always compensating and this takes a lot of extra energy. Many service dogs need to cover a lot of ground when on duty and inefficiency of movement seriously limits the dogs ability to work. Working line enthusiast often see no need for this correct movement and ridicule showline folks who emphasize it. But the facts are that it is critical for a working animal to move properly.

Thank You Preston for clearing that up. My issue is the placement of movement on the continuum. The AD is a good examination for strength of endurance. The jump and A-frame can also weed out structural flaws. The importance of movement in relation to stamina and endurance does not hold a lot of water when the GSD weighs 90+ pounds and is above 65cm. There is no way a dog this size can tend to a flock all day, I don't care how good their gate is. I've heard thru this message board that the show enthusiast are starting to favor and breed more medium sized dogs which is more in line with the standard. I have a working line male GSD that is at the minimum of the size and weight standard. His hips are excellent. This dog did not require any conditioning for the AD. Just acclimation to the bicycle. This is also a dog that when left to run about will go over the a-frame and jump out of play. Kyle

Kyle, you make a very important point, and one I agree with totally. That is why the SV's refusal to enforce the size (upper height)limit on GSDs in the showring is so serious. It's a fact that a well ligamented, dry, medium sized, extremely coordinated and agile GSD is a healthier, more vital and much better working animal than an oversized, loosely ligamented not so agile GSD and this should be emphasized in the SV showring if the movement, proportions, color and temperament are good. Oversized, loose animals expend a lot of energy needless when working.