KNPV trouble - Page 7

@ apple, LOLOL wait for the dog till he calms down before you reward, really, buy a ticket and visit a few

If the dog needs to be tired in order for it to be trained it would be much more difffuclt to control the dog when it is distracted, if you taught the dog to focus even when it wants to play or do other things it would make training much more easier and would be more likely to listen to your commands whilst under distraction.

'Different dogs, different strokes', surely ?

 

About a few years maybe earlier its RIP KNPV and soon  real  serious working dogs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Duke,
That is not what I’m saying at all. Any decent handler knows timing is everything. I was referring to bitework where people make a lot of prey movement with the rag or wedge and get the dog barking a lot. The dog can’t think and they create this bad habit in the dog which makes control much more difficult.

hired dog
conditioning the dog through the training to obey and perform actions desirable for handler, is already act of subjugation. it's just different dogs demand a varied level of effort and method to achieve this.

sorry, i see i should be more clearer in regard of "off field" remark.
what did i meant is that attitude of handler to dog and attitude of the dog toward a handler in off work/relaxed environment should be good indicator about relation between them.

Valk, in my opinion, conditioning a dog to do certain behaviors that I teach is called a partnership. I show the dog what I want done in a way that I want it done that is enjoyable for the dog to do and I pay the dog for doing those things.
Consistency+repetition= a habit.
At the end of the day, the dog learns and the time comes when the dog will fully comply with my commands, close by or at a distance, because he understands that its better that way for a few reasons...he gets rewarded, he does not get corrected and we still have a relationship which is a VERY important aspect of my owning a dog.

Valk,
Subjugation means to bring a dog under control through domination. It means to make the dog submissive or subdued. Most modern trainers want their dogs to look forward to correctly performing a behavior so they get "paid" with a toy or food. At some point the behavior has to be proofed and when the dog is corrected, he is subjugated, but there is usually little need for that to happen if a good foundation has been put down. Even low stim e-collar use is not subjugation to me. The dog learns that the correct behavior makes the stim go away. In the handler dog relationship, the handler is the boss, but he doesn't have to be bossy. That is the whole point of breeding balanced dogs that have enough drive to motivate them without having to subjugate them, while still having genetic aggression that they will bite a person for real.

Once you start talking about how to get real dogs on real bites how to release, it will benefit you and the dog if you thoroughly understand and know how to condition punishers, condition avoidance and condition fear (in that order). This is not just for the release event, this control must also be established to potentially protect the dog from harm and to protect the innocent from the trained dog.

hired dog
if you like to call it partnership, i have no objections. but let me guess - in that partnership you do prefer to be a boss even if dog do have and demonstrates very much similar desire?
very good when dog enjoying by doing certain work but doesn't mean that any and every task by default is an enjoyable for dog. i doubt that jump over 6' wall, to creep under barbed wire, refusal to nice smelling food, to climb up and down ladder, stay in place when nature call to chase or attack and many other small and big things from dog's point of view are enjoyable :)

apple
that's right - domination. dog's world somewhat differ from world of humans and so is dog's perspective and mindset. relations, be it among own species or with human, foremost is based on the rank.
in another words - if dog realizes there are no one, stronger and smarter than itself, the dog immediately take over the role of leader and won't be hesitant to convince all others through violence, irregardless if that dog or human.