cross gaiting gsd - Page 7

BTW  there have always been some GSDs who needed help  (ie a push on their bum) to get them over the

higher settings of a scale;  some jumped better than others even in the 'good old days' ie  pre excessive

angulation.  In any strains, Show or Working, from what I have seen with my own eyes in this country;  I

think that's just as likely to be true in other countries.

And Malis tend to skip right over more often but then, they are mostly smaller and lighter, as much as their rear

angulation is usually straighter, than GSDs.

hundmutter,

but the extreme angulation gives them more power in their stride!  so why can't they jump as well as the malis?

The older style shepherd was straighter in his angulation back when they did the palisade.

MK  Try not assuming I don't / haven't seen enough of them.

Well, if you had, you'd know what I was talking about.

Incidentally, I'm not out in the sticks here playing by myself....Schwiekert, the SV judge and Koermeister has also written that the GSD's are overangulated and commented on the problems that brings. 

Since neither the FCI or the AKC breed standard defines the correct angles per se, it's left to personal interpretation what is or what is not "too much angulation". How much is too much? On the other hand, how little is too little?  Is a workingline that is too straight to have much endurance or soundness of movement a better representative of the breed than a sickle hocked showline with a flying trot?  Why?

To keep this real, too little angulation also brings with it it's own set of problems.

Blitzen,

Actually the angles are given in the FCI breed standard.  in degrees. 

The answer is the happy medium and not the extreme on either side.   But the working side is influenced by the showline and the whole breed is skewed to too much angulation.  I don't think you could find a post legged shepherd from European bloodlines.  And I agree, by definition, the modern breed standard is for sickle hocked dogs. 

I see that now.The AKC standard isn't as specific. Any photos of a GSD with an approximate 120 degree angle? I can't picture what that would look like.

I defintely agree - no one faction is to blame for the current state of the breed; all are equally as responsible.

MK   I do not necessarily disagree that over-angulation can cause problems;  but whatever

Herr Schweikert says  (this week, he hasn't been all that consistent over the years), you

must know that not everyone agrees with everything he says.  And he isn't the only SV Judge.

I just think ( like many others ) that the 'jury is still out ' on the whole structural issue.   I also have

a different agenda, being in Europe rather than the US. 

 What I AM disagreeing with is your conviction that the video you posted is a good or accurate portrayal

of  your understanding and belief.   I see different things in it,  to you;  and I rely on my own eyes and hands, 

over many years, to judge what is and isn't  IME  either correct to the  Standard - meaning FCI but with

reservations 'cos I felt the original German version was actually better - or healthy  & functional for

the dog.  I am entitled to say that without  being patronised for daring to sometimes see things differently to you.

so you are disagreeing with my conviction?  I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant. 

Yep, not everybody agrees on anything.  But when was the last time that a koermiester came out a published a paper stating that the GSD is overangulated?  If he's saying it, other koermeisters are thinking it.  Problem is no one will buck the dollar.  (or actually the Euro, lol). 

There is no doubt that the standard has changed over the years and that it is skewing to overangulated dogs. 

The patterns I am seeing in the SL and angulated working dogs have developed over the last 20 years.  The dog in the video demonstrates very clearly that he can't launch over the palisade.  He has to climb up by hooking his front legs over the top and then struggling to use his rear legs to climb up.  .  There is no interpretation in that.  It is the way it is.  The reason it is that way is that his rear end doesn't have the power to propel himself higher up the wall.  It's pretty straight forward. 

Years ago when the GSD had a straighter hind leg, they had the power in the rear to go over the palisade.  For me the jury has returned emphatically.   The whole "angulation creates power" is nothing but a catch phrase to justify it.  It makes for a prettier trot.  It doesn't increase power, or strength, or launch or any other measurable attribute other than the trot.  If it did, then the GSD could jump over the palisade without struggling and ending up falling over the top of it.