Active helper versus passive helper - Page 3

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Really not understanding this thread, that dog is already introduced to sleeve/bitework. The site of the whip, sleeve, leash, decoy, context.... triggers trained responses.

Definitely not passive.

Perhaps the confusion is that in most vids people crack whips and active decoys to show the dog is not scared and they want to demo the dog amped up and barking because all the noise and motion impresses folks.

That's why I don't like posting other people's clips, we only guess at what the purpose is.

Here is my version of passive, no pre-training, no stimulation just let dog go.

VK let me explain, when I or anyody else say passive helper it doesnot mean standing like statue, it means opposite to running up and down, throwing sleeve before biting, screaming, and whipping 25 times etc.

the video is not "other "people, its mine and its me working the dog, and there are plenty of trained dogs I test that have very soft or bad grip approached like this, but have good grip on 3th or 4th bite in session, or need to be jacked up before first bite

IMO that is genetic, others say its buildup/training of the dog,

I meant when you talk about not liking active you were referring to most vids that get posted.

I know the last clip was yours, I see all your clips.

No I think most people think passive decoy is statue, its a great test.

Like I said crazy decoy most people think is more spectacular and impressive.

 

Passive bite is definitely stronger dog.

your video is whole different game IMO, the dog has been biting previous to this action most likely, if anyone has a IPO basic trained dog and releases it in a park its unlikely that dog is going to do a search and engage on a still sitting helper with full suit

this(videolink) is example of what I woild call "active " as opposed to passive

be ware, I am not judging it or say its wrong,

https://youtu.be/lB90OOQwF64

I guess a good example of a passive decoy is how the decoy worked in the old Belgian Ring. The dog must engage without much agitation from the decoy. Also in the guarding object exercise.

In those days you will need the wright dog to complete the exercise, in this case Genetics.

 

I give up, you say active means passive and passive means active.

Read your last posts, you have actually said that, good night.
"
on a STILL SITTING helper

this is example of what I woild call "ACTIVE" "

"

let me explain, when I or anyody else say PASSIVE helper it does not mean standing like statue"

and so on....

 

 

So WTF is this decoy doing to stimulate dig, passive or active or Pactive perhaps??

that is a keybord problem VK LOL, the example Im referring to is the video I put under that statement

The video posted I would still consider an active helper. You're activating the dog with the whip, the sleeve, the shushing noise, it all increases the dog's drive. My idea of passive is the basic position a helper takes in the blind. No posturing, no noise, not even looking the dog in the eyes. A properly trained dog is expected to bark at this picture and not stop no matter how long the helper doesn't move for.

A young dog...just depends on their thresholds and their drive level as to how much movement they'll need in order to activate. Once a good dog figures out what's going on, it's very easy to go to the picture duke presented in the video. Small movements, light sounds, to give the dog some feed back while building it up to the completely passive picture.

You can even probably frustrate a good puppy enough to the point of barking at the kind of picture presented in the video as long as the dog hasn't already been reprimanded countless times for barking at people prior to the work being started. If the dog has already been taught to stay quiet and not bark at people, there is no way they'll figure out that they're now allowed to bark at this one guy doing these weird things without some help.

Sorry...this isn't genetics, this is training. Show a dog it's allowed to bark at the man with the sleeve, a dog with enough drive will bark at the man with the sleeve and bite it when it's presented. If this is just a simple drive discussion then I guess it's genetics, but there is no genetic component to a dog barking at an active helper or a passive one, it has to be taught. Lower thresholds...maybe...some dogs just need a weird look (as long as they haven't been shut up outside of the context already), and they'll bark, but again, it's not a "genetic bark at the standing man" type of thing.