Your "succesful" method of teaching the RECALL - Page 3

Release the rabbits...... should be done during an ipo trial as well.

WOW Laura I am very very impressed...  Well why I ask that is I THOUGHT my sammie girl was really, really good until hubs let her in garage to begin her walk and off she went chasing the cat across the street that she had been watching thru our window.  Well needless to say;  she is ONLY on leash now, never allowed off.  That particular cat got killed by a pit bull but there are others around and loose.  So not for her anyway.  So basically I agree this is a lifetime function and training never ends.  She is my girl I also use an E-Collar on as she is such a snot.  But my working shepherd boy is another story.  Has to be taught in all aspects of obedience and taught to a point of being totally bombproof...  I have a ways to go.  Thx to all  Nan

 

Yes Melba I am using my other two dogs loose running around my boy while he is working.  So far, so good.  Keep fingers crossed that he finally gets it.  We slacked off a bit and it came back and bit us you know where..  Won't do that again,  Hubs working so hard as well as myself;  was a little defeated but is going strong again, even more determined.  Stressed the fact how imparative it is for me to have solid recall, and really that is for any dog, just like the stay/wait/blybe or whatever you say in whichever language.  Great days, Nan  Thx

Well back to square one again;  now my 13 month old boy is scared to come to hubs.  Got in trouble for NOT COMING;  now shreaks and ducks when you go up to him to put on leash if he has been told to come and does not come.  S- - - .  So we are starting over yet again to try to reinforce recall. 

 

ANYONE HAVE ANY NEW SUGGESTIONS...  Please...I made some new type reward treats, hope that helps but don't feel too confident at this point.  Yikes...  Thx  Nan

Nans....i dont know if its typical for male dogs but i had same issue with Dozer, he had no recall at all and would come only when he wanted to, there were days i would be on my 4's  crawling under wood deck,  back door steps, cars, just so i could drag him out by his hind legs just to bring him where i was originally and to tell him "sit", and walk away.....

At 7 months he had no recall at all,  i went through food motivation recall, toy motivation recall, excitement recall, nothing worked he would just look at you turn his head sideways to see if it was worth comming and than would keep going where ever he was heading....he was about 11-16 months when i started physicaly bringing him to where i wanted him and he did scream like i was killing him, i was so afraid someone was going to report me for animal abuse...he is now almost 8 years old and he has one of the best recalls, it took time for it to sink in that if he was called he had no choice one way or another he was going to be where i was calling him...I completely understand you because at those moments when he was screaming bloody murder i thought i was screwing him up for life....but...it all worked out, it took all summer but at the end he is confident, self assured, very responsive dog, he is the only one i let outside off leash when neighbors mutt is out or deer are in the water across the street... besides  you pup at 13 month is a  teen who is feeling it out, stick with the program and you will be just fine.

Nan, once you train the recall motivationally, you can start layering corrections for not listening. Here is what I do and it has worked very well for me. The dog learns to come from puppyhood, as soon as I get it, if I get a puppy, with food until after its done teething and toys then, however, at no time is the dog allowed any other options when I call it over, it has to come, on its own or being reeled in, it has to come when called. I believe this is the biggest mistake people make when training, they give a green dog options and it exercises them figuring out that there are indeed alternatives to listening.

Next, once the dog knows what I want, I introduce the E collar and use that to communicate and correct the dog for anything untoward. It is beyond the scope of this post to discuss in detail how to go about using the E collar and i want to add one thing that I think its missing from all training programs...the dog must have a worry of concequenses that will happen if it does not return immediatelly to you when called, at top speed. 

As far as your dog, I would put a long line on it and let it roam free in a contained field. I would intro the E collar...and your post is a perfect reason why I am a HUGE advocate of them...because it leaves you out of the equation and the dog thinks its behavior caused the correction. Once again, these are very general statements, they are meant to give you ideas of how to formulate your own training plan and put it to use.

Thanks to all;  Ladyfrost I do understand what you are saying.  Sounds similar to what my "teenager" is doing now, just am not sure how to correct problem(s) and hubs very frustrated.  Made a little progress today at park on long line though and feel a bit better about his attitude to recall or come command.  Just saying how frazzeling it can be when they screw this up as I feel it is a safety command first and foremost.  Feel like it's hanging upon a thin branch from a tree.  Don't like that feeling though particularly about this command.  Thx for sharing  Nan

 

Hired dog:  thank you also, I have used the E- Collar on many of my dogs but mostly for stopping unwanted behavior;  not for reinforcing.  Not sure I follow you on that train of thought.  But please do share and have lately thought about using it on this boy.  Am using long lines and that worked out well today.  Now how do I reinforce the return each and every time;  am currently using food and praise reward(s).  But I still don't trust anything yet.  So if I do use the E-Collar is it most efficient at the exact moment you say "come"?  Whip him around with long line and reel him in "fast" as he can go.  Or ??  Am I on the right track here?  That would mean he has to wear the collar full time except when sleeping in crate to be able to reinforce command, correct??  And actually this particular wreck happened while loose in the house off leash, so did not have any recourse except to go and get him and drag him to where he was supposed to be when called.  Wasn't pretty at all.  Thanks you for your thoughts and help.  And he really did learn this from puppyhood, but this and the focus are not as strong as they need to be.  Nan

Hired dog is right.

However, you are not training a true recall.  You are training the dog to come to you.  You already have a bad habit and to break the habit the dog will have to have consequences for bad decision making

I'm not sure that you can learn how to use the e-collar correctly over the internet. What part of the country are you in?  I think you need someone to show you how to fix this once and for all.  Would help for hubby to learn this as well.  Otherwise you are going to be bouncing back and forth as you have been for the dog's whole life.

 

Nans, IMO you should put the dog back on a 6 foot lead and start all over. I think you know to never call a dog to you for anything other than a happy experience. I would try to find a very high value treat or a favorite toy, something that gets him excited. For now, keep him on a lead, don't allow him to make a mistake so you don't need to correct him. 

Now you will have to break down the exercise to sit - reward, stay - reward,   recall- reward, sit in front - reward, and finish-reward. When you sit and stay him, always step out on your right foot.  I wouldn't move on to the next step til he was solid. Moving him along too fast may get you right back to square one. As tempting as it may be to move on too fast, I'd do one part of the exercise, 3, 4 times a day for at least a week. You have him on a leash so he can't make a mistake. 4 times is enough for one day and too much for some dogs. You will have to decide how much is too much for your dog.

When he sits, stays, comes well, then use a longer leash increasing the distance by a few feet in each session. When you tell him to come, don't let him sit around and think about it. Say - come, heir, whatever, and in the next second start to reel him in praising him the entire times; not too slow but not really fast either. I would not give him a jerk, I'd just reel him in saying in an excited voice..... Atta boy...let's go....good dog, etc. I'd finish him left for now (to his left).  A left finish is more natural for the dog than a right finish.

If your husband is going to participate in training him, he will need to stay next to you when you call the dog to you. He should also be praising him and have a high reward treat available. If the dog is still unsure of him, then the DH may have to accompany you during the entire process.

I have an ecollar, have never had to used it for training a GSD in OB. I want my dog to work for me because we have built a relationship, not because they fear a correction. I don't care about high scores in AKC OB, just want the dog to qualify. IMO the biggest goal is to get the dog to pay attention and hold that attention while working. That's why most dogs when trialing for a BH or the IPO OB phase lean into their handlers looking up at their faces. Good for that venue, not so good for AKC OB, a point loser for crowding. Not a big deal for you, but maybe you should also think about how you want him at heel. Have you worked on that yet? IMO OB training must begin with heeling; it the fist stage in getting the dog's attention. No point in moving on with a dog that doesn't heel well and pay attention.

I've mention this in my first post to this thread, I don't use food rewards either, but at the point you are with your dog, I think you need to do that or find a toy he loves even more than his favorite treat. Good luck.

If this were my dog, I wouldn't use the "come" command inside the house for now unless you were prepared to not let him make the mistake of not obeying. It's too much for him to digest right now.

Blitzen,

Your missing the part where I said this isn't a "recall" issue.  They are having problems with the dog coming to them in the house even.  It's a bigger issue than a recall for sport.  The whole long line technique won't work because 1) he can't live with it on 2) he's making a decision to ignore the command.  No amount of positive reinforcement will bridge that problem.  He has to learn neg consequences for bad decision making.

The fact that you have never used an E collar in OB, just means that you haven't trained enough dogs yet.

E collar in the right hands is the answer for this one.