Cost of training/titling in Germany - Page 2

will do, and yes :o). You can also get my eMail by clicking on my log in name, my eMail addy is posted.

If you are looking for a good trainer he is well known in Germany and i learned alot from him and he doesnt charge that much alot of people trained by him been to the BSP already Andreas Schniete Zwinger vom loewenhof www.vom-loewenhof.de

Training in Germany has the advantage of having many many trials to show and train your dog. They dont have to drive days to get to a trial. Most trials are at the most 5hrs away. The US has the advantage of being able to go and see the training on your dog at anytime. I training on a whole is far better in the US than it is in Germany. Germany has the best trainers in the world but its only a handful. The rest arent worth shipping your dog to them. In the US the titles are real. why do you think people buy top Sch III dogs and they fail bitework? Germans can get away with things that we can get away with in trials here. They can title dogs faster because of this. The cost of titling a dog in Germany is more expensivie than The US if you factor in shipping. it costing 800.00 to ship each way.But if being able to say my dog was titled in germany is what you what say abotu your dog by all means ship it there. If you want a quality trainer and dont have alot of money to spend then keep it in the states because if you aren't using the best trainers in Germany then you are just wasting your money. D.H. maybe be a good choice for you.I dont know him or her personally so do your homework. But most important than anything else is to take your dog get it tested then find a trainer to ship the dog too. Only after you know the dog is worth training then ship it anywhere around the world you want it titled in. ceddy

Ceddy, Schutzhund is relatively new to the USA. It is now becoming fashionable and everyone is an overnight expert. Where do you think that knowledge came from? How is training so much better in the USA, than in Germany? I just have to ask the question. I am American and I am patriotic as the next guy(spent 22 years in the Army)but your post perplexes me. I was doing Schutzhund work with the Germans 25 years ago, when the word was "Greek" in America. The reason I take my dogs back to Germany is because of the way I am treated, here in the USA. Americans are "clique" oriented, and you have to kiss the right ring, in hopes of being accepted. I am like a square peg trying to fit in a round hole, trying to ingratiate myself into the "American cliques". When I go to Germany, I am always treated like a human being, and the Germans bend over backwards to help me(training ME, the dogs, ect) and make me feel "welcome", which is what the sport is all about. From your post I got the impression that German dogs are titled on paper and American trained dogs are "the real deal". I just had to take issue with that, because I disagree. Thank God for the Germans I know, or I would be left out in the cold, on the outside, looking in. Stephen

stephen: thank you!!! you do speak very much the truth and most here in the states wont, because they want to fit in with this clique, and i think this is so wrong, i'll stand with you on this stephen, germans are the real teachers and everyone else is just students!!!

Hello all, Thanks EVERYONE for your responses! Much appreciated! Crocop: I will email you privately with my addy. SGBH : I could'nt agree with you more! The US clubs that I have been to are VERY cliquish and not always friendly to showlines....as you are probably already aware.....may I email you privately? D.H. Thanks again for such an extensive answer! I will definitely be in touch! Again, THANK YOU TO ALL!!! Regards

Ceddy... of course it is the dog and only the dog when it has been competing successfully already but then fails miserably once he is in the hands of a new owner. Hmmm. That can be the ONLY explanation, I am sure... There is that word again - papertrials. Sure there may be some black sheep, in the US just like anywhere else, but all in all, that is a mere speckle among the huge amount of dogs that have EARNED their titles. You might be surprised how many Germans take pride in titling their dogs. German is still synonymous with quality. The many negative comments on this board regarding a dogs SchH performance are incredibly disrespectful! To the dogs and their owners and their handlers and their trainers. Sad how some people will keep dwelling on the few failures out there - and there must always be some to ensure the value of those who do succeed - when so many others do well, compete well, continuously proove their worth. These are dogs, they are NOT machines that you just plug and play my friend!!!!!! Remember the dog only makes up 50% of that equation. So whose fault is it really when the performance starts lacking, hm?? Its the helper, the dog, the dog had the runs, it was too hot, too cold, whatever. Do you EVER hear a handler say: jeez I really screwed up this one. Instead the handler will most likely say: the dog is already trained, he should know this stuff. He made me look bad. I feel so embarrassed now. I better sell him. Must find 'nother dog. Hopefully one that is maintenance free and operates on autopilot and its performance is always like the first day regardless how little time I spend training, or how little I know, or how little everyone else in the club know, or how bad the helper in our club is, who BTW most likely has only ever seen a Frawley video (if so lucky) and now thinks he is King of the Blind(s). Ceddy, you have very obviously NEVER been to Germany. In 5 hours you have passed through several German provinces, even if you are hauling a trailer, and could have trialed at some 20 locations inbetween. Most trials are within an hours drive, 2 hours would be a stretch. Everything else goes beyond local trials. Maybe you should actually go there one day... I fully agree that an owner needs to determine first if the money will be well spent. Was alreay said. See above. And yes I do know my trainer personally, have for several years, otherwise we would not work together. Nor would I send my own dogs there. Stephen, I hear ya. :O)

DH, SGBH, dshlerner, thank you guys very much..... you are right there is a lot of Cliques around the GSD. That sometimes can be very irretating and annoying. Some guys & girls like only dogs out of that line, some other like this line better for what reason ever. If someone comes with a line they dislike, they wont talk to each other !!! What a bunch of crap !!! Annother thing about your dog beeing tittlet over here in Germany is : Over here you have the choice by which judge your dog is titled. I pefectly know it should not be that way, but it makes things a bit easier. Annother thing i want to mention is : You always get what you pay for ! If that is worthy for someone, he or she has to find out for themself. I believe that there are good trainers in the US also, but it looks to me that you will have more choices over here in Germany. I used to live in Kansas City for 4 years, and i found it quite hard to find a good training place. You all take care

hi

sorry it took so long to repsond but had issues getting my messages uploaded. First of all i've been to several trials in Germany(i lived in Europe for 2yrs). I have seen trials that the handler tells the track layer where to put the articles, where to turn , and give platz commands on the track. I said at the most 5 hrs drive.D.H. check your understanding of the english language before you speak. I didnt say you had drive 5hrs for every trial. I said at the most it would only be 5hrs to any trial u want to attend. Just because Germany started the sport doesnt mean they are the best now.As a matter of fact training in Belguim is better than Germany.Dog training has evolved just like training for racing and track and field. The best in Germany are unbeatable( all 10 of them)but the rest are average at best. Training is far better as a whole here in the US. yes there i cliques here in the states as well as in germany. So find a trainer that just helps you with your dog. most american trainers don't like show dogs. The handlers of show dogs are really as serious about training their dog in the sport but more about getting titles to show and breed.Unfortunately their are very very few show clubs in the states. So we have to go to working trainers for their help. i have a friend (rottweiler guy) that has won several national working trials with his dogs in germany that comes to the States to fix problems and polish his dog for competition. He has said several times that training is better here than Germany. Like i said training in most clubs in Germany is outdated in their method. Dont let the Accent fool you.Why not call and talk to the best trainers here in the states and hear their opinions about training in Germany. Call Gary Harahan, Wallace Payne, Dean Calderon,Phil Houlsher,Debbie Zappia,Gene England,and see what they think. i think you will be surprised at what you hear. Ceddy