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by chance on 07 December 2004 - 00:12
Hi hodie! I've had dogs in the past 36 years which as 8 week old puppies had normal bites, at 8 months approximately 1 cm over and when fully mature at 2 years of age, either a perfect scissor bite or even level. The head is not fully developed until maturity at approximately 2 years of age and the under jaw always seems to grow until 14 - 18 months, so I wouldn't worry too much as yet, but of course if you wish to sell him immediately, then it will be up to the buyer and yourself to reach an agreement.
by ALPHAPUP on 07 December 2004 - 01:12
hello - 1/3 to 1/4 is a vbery very alrge discrepancy ,previuos commentsa are very good .. much is learned is wiht experience -- but realistically , that is to great of a margin to make up in growth and evelopment on average -- don't forget the maxilla [top jaw ] grows as well as the mandible [lower jaw]-- then ther is alsao the tooth relationship in addition to be concearned about -- watch the lower canines as thjey can somnetimes hit the gum of the upper jaw and cause tissue damage
by elizabeth on 07 December 2004 - 04:12
Forgive me for asking but "how important" is the Scissor bite? Can a dog still Kore 1 with a dental fault? At what age is a "fault" considered final?
What is the degree of "fault" as noted in a dental notation?
by GSDNewbie on 07 December 2004 - 05:12
Ive just read about the troubles these dogs have eating and that this is genetic I would say there is no question of to breed or not breed these dogs with thier bite at all no such thing as an exceptable in this I would think? why purposfully breed this and have it show up in more of the lines?
by hodie on 07 December 2004 - 06:12
No one said a thing about breeding such a dog. The question was whether this would correct itself with growth. The upper and lower canines are now just about even, meaning looking from the side, they are together, although the lower canines are inside the upper. This is a change from early on. My question relates to growth. If this does not correct, I would not be able to get a conformation rating or a KKL and I do NOT breed untitled or unkoerd dogs.....
by patrishap on 07 December 2004 - 06:12
Hi Newbie,
Once penny dropped it was genetic, I decided very early it couldn't be used for breeding. It's the kind of thing that Breeders at time of Shepherd's development would have tried to eradicate by inbreeding, followed by ruthless culling. Obviously, the odd defect remained ...!
What's worse, and hodie will have realised this, what is guarantee, even if defect did disappear at 12 or 24 months, that litters produced later didn't have some pups with same problem: trauma galore with unhappy buyers subsequently?
by Blitzen on 07 December 2004 - 06:12
I don't know if my experience with a Malamute's bite would be of any interest. I sold my "keeper" male puppy when he was 8 months old, he was undersize and had a level bite that was promising to go undershot at any minute. He had started out with a nice tight scissors. His owners divorced and I got him back at 3 years old and his bite was scissors and he was standard size. I've always heard the lower jaw is the last to grow on all dogs and bites can change for years. Both of my GSD's had perfect scissors bites, started out that way and never changed.
by Silbersee on 07 December 2004 - 06:12
Elizabeth,
to receive a KKL1, the dog has to have a faultless scissor bite and no missing teeth. The only thing possible is a double P-1. In order to receive a KKL2, the dog can have a slight level bite, 1 or 2 missing P-1, or one missing P-2, or one missing incisor, or a combination of one P-1 and one incisor missing. Anything else, is not qualified to be bred (one missing P-3, or 2 missing P-2, or one P-2 and P-1 missing, or 2 incisors missing or an even worse combination.
Chris
by patrishap on 07 December 2004 - 07:12
Apology for superfluous last post above, hody,
You just beat me in posting
by GSDNewbie on 07 December 2004 - 16:12
I am sorry Hodie I was unclear I was responding off Elizabeths question. In her quest to kkl the dog with bad bite it translates to me to later breed why else would somone put so much in? I could be wrong but it was way I interpeted this? I felt the leading of the question was just how much is couted againt dog with this bite can it still title and therefore go on to be bred?
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