Questions, Long winded but I appreciate any input from the GSD experts on here - Page 6

Pedigree Database

 
Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 13 July 2020 - 17:07

GSCat, I agree about 'people' - IMO there are too many pet owners in this world who in general do not regard aquiring a dog as a matter that requires any level of responsibility from them. They probably do not even like dogs to the extent that folks like you & I do, but it is fashionable to have a canine member of their family (or 2, or 3...) so they HAVE to have them. But they do not do any research  before getting them, they do not adequately prepare for having them, and they know when they are in the wrong when the dog causes problems for others, but cannot bring themselves to publicly acknowledge that so become rude and obnoxious.

Dunno about a clause in contracts for doing [GC or other] training; like my mentor used to write it into her puppy paperwork but I don't know that it would have been easy to enforce.  I suppose it could help if the Kennel Clubs treated a basic training as a matter for possible endorsements, like not exporting unless consulted breeder, or not breeding until breeder notified re: health test results (or like not Registering litters which did not conform to Health Testing requirements - something in the UK we are still trying to achieve !) but there appears to be some increasing reluctance to support the practice of using those endorsements we already have. Ok their websites  recommend training; but looking to our KCs for real backing ??? (Hhhmmm).


by GSCat on 14 July 2020 - 08:07

I don't think it should be KC or registration entities (AKC, etc.). I think it should be something between buyer and seller.

I do like rental properties that require CGC or BH (or equivalent) for all dogs (and puppies by a certain age). Some insurance companies give landlords a break on premiums if they have this requirement, but it still doesn't help with breed bans ­čą║

by Hired Dog on 14 July 2020 - 10:07

I have seen and been told of many dogs, with CGC, BH, IPO and police dog titles destroy properties. Just because a dog is titled in something, it does not mean its well behaved in every day life.
A lot of these dogs dont even live in the house, they live in the kennel, they come in and shit and piss and destroy floors.
I knew a person whose dog would go through walls when it thundered outside. Train your dog to live a normal life in normal every day life, titles are for decoration, real life happens daily, make sure your dog can function in it.



Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 14 July 2020 - 13:07

GSCat, Just looking for a way to get back-up on it ! We spend enough fees with Kennel Clubs, no harm in asking for support in return.
Have never heard of such rental agreements over here; nor the insurance company discounts either. Maybe a couple of things that could usefully be adopted by the UK !

 

Oh gawd Hired Dog I have heard a lot of stories like that but never with titles attached !  Quite prepared to believe it may be true of some of our Good Citizen Dogs but if so the owners ain't shouting about that.  General impression I get is that the dogs concerned have mostly never been near training of any sort until its too late, the bad habits have set in; then the owners start going from Behaviourist to Trainer to Vet to FB Group to Behaviourist ...  Mind you there may be a difference over here because there is MUCH less reliance on sending dogs away to board 'n' train services.


by Hired Dog on 14 July 2020 - 14:07

Hund, I have seen and in a few cases, smelled the damage caused by some of those dogs on walls, carpets, furniture, etc.
A good friend of mine owned the Malinois that would literally chew through a wall to get out of a room when it rain and thundered.
This was an adult male that would drop a human in a heartbeat, but, could not deal with thunder.
He was titled, so were the other ones, it did not make any difference because people, again, forget that there is an every day life that the dog needs to live and focus on titles and ribbons.
I have a 12 week old puppy that is housebroken, crate broken, sleeps through the night every night, does not bother anything in the house that he has not been given expressly for him to chew, etc, etc....why, because he is learning boundaries and what he can and cannot do. Other, more demanding training will come, if the temps ever drop below 100, but, since he lives in my house, he needs to know how to function in my house. That is what people forget, its not about "cuteness" , even though he is adorable, its about making sure your dog can function in society as a well adjusted dog. Forgive the rant, its a pet peeve...

by ValK on 14 July 2020 - 15:07

hired dog
my last eastern bred GSD Ari, did come with me to Canada. people. who saw him, including my relatives, have been somewhat afraid of him.
it's not like he was acted toward them intimidatingly or such. it's just so... sort of his aura, overall appearance and expression, general attitude
didn't trig in the people desire to pet him or interact with him in any other way at all. neither he was ever been starving for someone's attention.
just a typical for breeding program big and strong, proud and selfreliant, very intelligent (his name Ari i gave to him from shortened Aristotle :)
and confident dog.

as for "breeders, who bred real dogs and have hard time to place them"... my guess they want a top dollar for these dogs. if they could step
over own greed, perhaps there are still plenty of establishments/businesses, which would be glad to take those dogs as guard dogs for
enclosed perimeter of business location. in past, our club never have problem with placing rejected dogs. in fact we were in position to chose
to whom give them.

i very much agree with another your post, only a sentence: "Train your dog to live a normal life in normal every day life" i would address to
breeders and put it as: "breed your dogs to live as normal dogs in everyday normal life".
so many hassles and garbage can be avoided, before even delivering dung of pups into this life.
instead in name of "cuteness" of idiotic behavior and as main sale point breeders flooded breed by the junk, which in turn does demand from
future owner to go into extra effort to train their dogs the things, which used to be innate in GSDs.

by Hired Dog on 14 July 2020 - 15:07

Valk, the breeder I am speaking of has no intentions of selling their dogs as junk yard dogs. They cost less then what the average person pays for a puppy today, I know this because I know how much I payed for mine.
I have been in this game a long time Valk, I do not pay what some breeders think they need to charge, but, I will pay a reasonable amount for a very good dog.

An "aura" we you described it is a great thing to have, it can stop stupidity before it starts in many cases. A well put together dog can project that "attitude". I also do not like what I refer to as "social whores", I want a dog that can interact if I want it to, but, its neutral.
What I do not want nor can live with is is a dog that lives on the edge, that has a need to prove itself, so, I chose this puppy because that is what I want and can live with. Oh, I like your selection of a name for your dog.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 15 July 2020 - 03:07

We can all swap individual dog histories ValK. How about this one ? I have exercised, some I've owned, several dogs that people would seem consistently to avoid on the street. Most of these dogs were actually pro-human fools which might have licked them to death but would never have bitten them. [Does not matter if they were from the Show kennel or the Security kennel. Haha !] However, the one (Show)dog they ought to have avoided and never to have touched, without proper introduction, if they'd had any sense or foreknowledge, was Vida, who was the 'sharp' one - and yet people always wanted to make friends with her, stroke her coat in passing, etc etc. Go figure.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 15 July 2020 - 03:07

We can all swap individual dog histories ValK. How about this one ? I have exercised, some I've owned, several dogs that people would seem consistently to avoid on the street. Most of these dogs were actually pro-human fools which might have licked them to death but would never have bitten them. [Does not matter if they were from the Show kennel or the Security kennel.] However, the one (Show)dog they ought to have avoided and never to have touched, without proper introduction, if they'd had any sense or foreknowledge was Vida, who was the 'sharp' one - and yet people always wanted to make friends with her, stroke her coat in passing, etc etc. Go figure.

 

PS Vida was never particularly 'cute' looking, either.


by GSCat on 15 July 2020 - 04:07

Do any of the clubs provide 3rd-party anything for sellers/buyers?

 

I agree that behavior problems like separation anxiety, fear of [fill in the blank], etc. and owner indifference/refusal/inability to train/correct often lead to destruction of property, no matter what breed. Any animal under the right circumstance can be destructive, no matter how well trained and no matter how nice the manners, and no matter the size or breed. These circumstances usually involve lack of supervision, just like when children are destructive.

 

I do like CGC, particularly if the owner and dog have gone through all 3 levels. At least there's daily manners (supposed to be like like service dog at that level) and the owner has put time into the dog and him/herself as handler/owner (unless board n train). And it's far less expensive than BH, so more people can afford it.

 

Every owner has a responsibility to train, care for, etc. his/her dog(s). There is a lot more effort and attention to detail required for some dogs (temperament, grooming, etc.). Breeders that breed these types of dogs need to ensure they match these dogs to appropriate buyers. The problem is puppy mills/irresponsible breeders. Novice/inexperienced owners often have no clue about the huge differences within some breeds, and bad breeders don't take the time to educate/screen buyers because it's all about the money. So long as the puppy has proof of shots and the new owner's veterinarian says the puppy is healthy, that is enough for new novice owners that just see cute puppy and imagine a well behaved dog without understanding the necessary work between the two.  If a dog is going to be in a house or apartment, the level of supervision needs to reflect the manners and training the dog has in that environment.  Asking/expecting a kenneled dog to behave in a house without additional (housebreaking, etc.) training frst is setting the dog up for failure and creating a situation that will likely result in destrution..

 

Just thought of something.  How about a pre-purchase education course that teaches responsibilities, liabilities, consderations, preparation, etc., plus a separate breed-specfic module..  The potential buyer could present the certificate(s) when contacting a breeder.  Sounds like a good thing for a club to do, especially with recodkeeping and ongoing updates due to changing laws, etc.  This would not be a how-to-train-your-dog class.  There's enough of them out there already.






 


Contact information  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement  Copyright Information  Terms of Service  Cookie policy  ↑ Back to top