training tips on watch me and off leash heeling - Page 2

<> GSDfan ... with my experience of competing in 65 schH trials I have met quite a few judges in my days and trust me they know, they are not stupid. Uwe

Uwe, Unless you are training a narco dog, there should be no toy,ball and food training is the easy way out. I don't care how high the drive is, if the dog is level headed he will work for you. Everyone has there own method and my opinion is from training working dogs,not for sport.

I'm not a big sport person, don't care much for SchH I do like ring sport as it is much more realistic.I can not speak for high end sport.To me a working dog must be 100% 100 percent of the time.If I'm about to get my ass handed to me,the dog I have with me is going to do what he is told for two reasons.1) I told him too, there are to be no questions asked,just do it. Just like turning on a light switch,turn it on,I expect it to go on,turn it off,well darkness.....lol. I expect this each and every time I flip that switch. 2)Because there is NOTHING or NOWHERE in this world that the dog would rather be then with me and to seek my praise. He will take it over a tennis ball or a hunk of liver anyday. Call me old fashion,it is something my trainer drilled into me years ago and I most likely could not change if I wanted too.

Charlie you are very correct in your statement "To me a working dog must be 100% 100 percent of the time" But with the way the question was originally asked "Watch me" I made the mistake of assuming that the person was asking about sport obedience. My training experience with P.D. K9 and real street dogs we do not teach the dog to twist his head in an unatural position and stare at us, like in SchH for heeling. We require the dog to be very corect position but to look forward. A street dog would be at a disadvantage in his tactics if he was staring at me when a suspect jumps out to attack. also A street dog is also as you mentioned trained to work 100% time period! no balls, toys or training gimmicks.

VHD You were correct,He was talking about a dog going for it's BH After rereading hid post I still think he needs to back up a little,I know,who likes to go backwards......lol. Put the dog back on lead,he states the dog looses interet,bull, step thigs up 2 or 3 times the speed you were working the dog,we won't have time time to lose anything. Everything flows down lead,if the handler has no spunk in his step,guess what,neither will fido. Back on lead for a while,get that down,work on the eye contact,when they have that down pat,try it off lead again. Of course this is to all be done HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY. Still a young dog with a lot of learning to do and I'm guessing the handler is somewhat new also? Keep the faith

I am in agreement with Biv and Charlie Ivory, I train with Leadership/Authority/Praise. Personally I find it demeaning to dogs to expect them only capable of responding with the help of bribery! It lacks dignity on behalf of the dog. However, the problem is actually in the home and when NOT training! If you are not 'talking' dog language and interacting in the home so that your dog UNDERSTANDS and respects your leadership, you cannot continue with that when formal training! Too many people now have lost the art of actually understanding dogs, hence the need for 'props' to PERSUADE the dog to respond. Go to most clubs and watch the 'quick fix' methods of training with treats and toys. Trainers now rarely give any further advice other than the actual 'exercise'. The relationship should be built and GENERAL response training should be taught in the home. Formal training then becomes a PROGRESSION of the dog listening and responding to the guidance of the Owner. I don't merely train FOR obedience - I train obedience! Treat/Toy training simply becomes a 'circus performance'. Watch the majority of people in top classes at an Obedience Show. The dogs have learned to 'perform an act', but watch when they come OUT of the ring. It is as though a light switch is switched on/off! Dogs pulling, tugging, barking. Even when handlers are relaxing on the grass (in safe areas) their dogs need to be TETHERED! They cannot simply remain laying down nearby and relaxing with confidence. The very art of taking time to learn about dogs and their interaction with their Owners as 'Leaders' that dogs genetically need and require, is being lost to this 'quick fix' way of training exercises. Such a pity, dogs have so much to give and not merely to benefit their own immediate desires! It is exciting and rewarding to have your dog eager and confident working with and for you! Vixen

IMO, one of the most brilliant trainers of GSD's is Win Strickland, she never uses food treats when training her dogs. She believes that developing a rapport and treating the dogs with dignity is the way to train a GSD. Her AKC OB records prove she knows what she's talking about. Smart dogs think of food as a bribe and they end up being the teacher rather than the scholar LOL.

BTW, great post, Vixen!!

Blitzen, Thanks, appreciate your comment. Regards, Vixen

well spoken Vixen......Blitzen, as far as this trainer goes, your right it is your opinion. AKC Obedience trials are a joke IMO. 99% of those dogs will break from there handler when given a distraction with food or a toy. People forget the foundation is Obedience for all other aspects of training. They are your eyes and ears.....who wants the dog prancing next to you and starring up at you??...If I am out doing protection work, I want my dog at a heel focused on the perp/aggitator. I know sport is different from a working dog, but I hear it all the time how my dog would be great working on the street and he is SchH trained. I bet most of those dogs will not make it 2 weeks into a Police dog academy. I don't want to even get started on Tracking or scent work with these so called trainers out there. When I hear about food being used to start the dog off on tracking to keep his nose to the ground,I will walk away from this so called trainer. Food is never an option when training any dog!