What do we miss about the older bloodlines? - Page 5

Duke, I don't ask about old lines.....some ask, I very seldom talk about what I haven't lived or experienced. I respect everything others say, but in the end my experiences shape my opinions, I respect you a lot, but you can't tell me I didn't see or experience something I lived. What I think and have lived really isn't important, only truth is. I always speak of the breed as a whole, I know there are pockets of good dogs,( I've owned many even up to now), but if people think the breed is in good shape; and that would insinuate to me that the majority of the breed was sound working stock and the unsoundness in the breed was present but in the minority, then we have different opinions of the breed. And that's Okay, no skin off my back.
I walked away from the American show scene in 1975,( you see I was taken in by the purdiness of the Lance craze, got a couple and figured me being an excellent trainer only needed to train these dogs and they could do the same things other GS could do and have the prettiness at same time. I was showing my dogs and it quickly became apparent that most all of this stock was lacking in temperament and could not be trained past a certain stress level), and I told them people as I left that unless they brought new genetics into this world and stop breeding for angulation they would destroy the breed. It's forty years later, they have not brought in any new genetics, by and large, and folks can judge for themselves the improvement or lack thereof. Now at this same time I was also training military/ police dogs and imported my first dogs from Germany, so I knew what to expect from working dogs of that period.

I started importing dogs from Germany in 1975, these dogs came from Marko, Mutz, Ajax, which was top show dogs at the time. The dogs I received became foundation dogs for many LE dogs and good working dogs.
Has history repeated itself with WGSL, many of you tell me everything is fine, you can get a good dog anywhere, Yada yada yada.......I HEAR you, but being as I still work and train dogs today, both show and working lines, I see the breed as a whole, differently. Doesn't make me right, just like it didn't in 1975, but history will certainly tell the story.
I'm really done this time....smile.....sorry for the length, its out of respect to you Duke.

Duke
Connie is 4-5 on Eros ( one of the dogs mentioned by Ma )
Uncas has dogs like Gildo, Lord , and some Busecker Schloss dogs ( all of which Ma mentioned as well he also mentioned the Salztalblick kennels )
And Baki has a bunch of Korbelbach dogs and is 5-5 on Umsa Bungalow ( both of which Ma mentioned as well ). So in a sense you have concurred what Ma said.

Yogi yes I do like strong dogs with high aggression. I have a dog that have quite high aggression ( at home or away from home ) levels ( and she constantly have to be managed ) but she has never injured anyone. I also had a strong , had male at my house but had to return him quickly because he was just too much with his 24/7 drive, and very dominant attitude; I did admire him though.( and he had Eros, Sagus, Racker, and Drigon in his blood.

Ma will produce a litter with Collin ( who is 2-3 on Mink ) next year, and we may get a pup from him.

Mithuna, Collin was 2-2 on Mink. :-)

Ih , thank you for the correction. Anyways Ma has frozen semen on Collin and will be using it next year ( so he says ).

NO Mithuna you don't have a strong dog from what u describe she has week nerves very little obedience and environmental shit . And I'm not the only one that thinks this . I find u a very confused person . That will try grab anything that fills your mind with hope .more time no the field less time on the computer and phone . And u might get a chance to c a strong dog and yours.

I enjoy reading about the breedings with dogs long gone through frozen. Now it’s up to you to take that puppy and make something of it so that the line continues and someone other than your neighbor is interested in breeding to that dog. Hopefully the female is a good match and might help the breeding get noticed by someone that is capable of raising the dog to its full potential. Would love to see that puppy compete against some of today’s dogs and see what the difference in the dogs really is. Back yard bite work or PPD work won’t impress anyone, those dogs will have to be worked to a high level to truly make any kind of statement about the genetics of days gone by. Genetics get lost way too easily because breeders aren’t able to place their puppies in homes that will get the most out of that dog and impress others enough to continue breeding to that line.

Yogi:
In your or others understanding: what are the observable symptoms in a strong dog ?

what are the observable symptoms of a weak nerve dog and
what is environmental shit?

If you and articulate these properly, we can have a reference the pivot a discussion, but if you start out with name calling...Im not interested in that kind of convo.

I am not used to Dutch German Shepherd dogs, so I have to ask...
What makes "Collin" that special? This is a honest question - no joke.

I am not able to find any bigger trials this dog participated in ( no big deal, not every good dog is a point hunter ),
I found 2 (!) siblings with severe HD out of 4 ( one of them not x-rayed ),
he wasn´t used much as a stud ( friendly said ).

What does this dog make special?

I believe a good producer will show himself throughout his progeny. In case there is no "outstanding" progeny there is no reason to use semen of a dead dog.

Besides that - Mithuna, you "fostered" a probably "strong" male for a couple of days, and you were glad, when the dog was gone.

Why the heck are you still searching for a strong dog?

A few persons including the breeder that Collin and his sister Citty had very strong characters. Collin was very high drive and very aggressive as well. I was glad the strong dog was gone because he had no off switch and he was an adult with bad habits. I would like to raise one from a pup.