Breeding untitled dogs - Page 3

Regarding schutzhund titling in the UK, I totally agree with Chads comments. The ideal for breeders wanting to take the WUSV system forward would be to train and title their own dogs in the UK. On a negative note, unfortunately we do not have the facilities/network of clubs available through the BSA to make this possible for everyone, the vast majority of clubs(and I think there are only about 14 in the whole of the UK) are in the North and Scotland. I am fortunate in having a BSA club fairly local to me in the South East so can train my dogs twice a week, others are less fortunate. Another aspect is cost, to send a dog to Germany for titling would cost between £700-£1000, to get a dog titled in the UK(If you dont have a facility for training yourself) would be more than double this(based on the prices I have been quoted). In Germany they have trials every weekend between March and November, in the UK maybe 6 a year within a 5 hour travelling time for me. Now on a positive note, there are more and more show people training their dogs in the UK, it takes alot of time and dedication but only in the last few weeks one of our club members has successfully taken their SchH1 WITH THEIR TOP WINNING SHOW DOG, being totally trained from a puppy by her owner, her first attempt at schutzhund training I believe. So come on GSD folk in the UK it is possible and think of the sense of satisfaction in doing it yourself:~}

" It's more scewed up over there then I though it was :((" Yep it sure is. And this is only part of it! HAHA Ed

VOR - according to SV rules you can only breed if your dog has at least one SV title. DVG titles or titles from non SV clubs are not accepted if it is the only one the dog has. I assumed it was the same in the North America. In Canada you cannot take a dog that has a DVG BH to an SV SchH1 trial. Pretty silly really. Helper anyone? A friend of mine would love to go abroad for a while to do helper work. Excellent helper too. Room and board and pocket change are not going to cut it though. Pockets for change would have to be pretty big :o). Salaries and standard of living are too high in Germany for anyone to be happy with just pocket change. If anyone has a serious offer I will gladly pass it along. Keep in mind that such a person will only be able to come for a limited time, since this kind of "occupation" is not really prime green card material. Meaning he will have to maintain a residence in Germany for that time. Plus flight... needs some bigger size pockets for sure. Interestingly not a single reply to my offer to organize a SchH/helper seminar. I guess that explains a lot...

Hi Everyone I am sorry but I am laughing so much. Here in Australia you cannot get show people to do anything with their "SHOW DOGS" except teach them to gait at the end of the lead. I cannot buy a show quality puppy here because I do obedience as well as show and QUOTE " The dog carn't learn to do both". I promise you this is so true. Over the years when I have commented about the fact that dogs can do both( show and work), in Germany the answer is that's in Germany, they carn't here??? I also drive twice a week to Schutzenhud training which is 1 1/2 hrs each way. I have 3 school age children and a full-time job. You have to prioritise so days you skip the ironing, or you chat with cooking and make up a second meal to go in the freezer. Sorry I digress. Whilst we have untitled animals that we breed the general public like to purchase a puppy that has parents with some form of title. So it is easier to sell a puppy from parents that are Grand American Champions with 5 generations of Grand American Champions behind it, as it is tto sell from Smiths Sally who is a pretty little GSD mated to Brown's Bob the handsome dog up the street. I believe also these days that the general public is becoming more educated in how to purchase a quality animal. I hope I haven't caused offense but I believe that as the general public is the main purchaser of our puppies this is what they want. Regards Freundhund

"It's more scewed up over there then I though it was :(("--Schaeferhund Thanks, Schaeferhund for your sympathetic understanding! It's true! I know a woman who had a built in trainer, and he didn't! He drank and smoked all day and eventually took her car and was involved in a drunk driving hit and run accident! Nevertheless, I dream of having a really nice person live on my property and train my dogs, and be a club trainer on my acreage. Either that, or have my own sweet little resident trial judge and convenient midnight trials! All I need is the property with the acreage and I'm ready to move on this idea. Freundhund, I do hope that Australia has permanent press clothing! :D Fortunately, my husband came to me already trained in sewing and ironing. I hope you're appreciated! It is true that there needs to be "new blood" in the helper world. They are athletes, and they wear out, just like Joe Montana. Some women are becoming helpers, too. Anybody know of any good ones? But seriously, if getting up Saturday morning and driving 80 miles one way to a club and fraternizing with cranky club members at 7 AM for tracking is what one wants, go for it. I chose not.

hmmm I guess you really DON"T understand how it is here! First off you are assuming that there ARE people who will work dogs just for the love of it....THERE ARE VERY FEW! Next, not only are there very few people that are wanting to be helpers....there are very few people in general who want to do the sport. Then, we have to figure in all the idiot animal "lovers" who think that we are tourchering our dogs and making them into vicious and dangerous for society. In addition, the clubs that are around usually don't want alot of people because it takes too long to work all the dogs. AND...the egos of some of the helpers are a BIG deterant to the sport in and of it's self. Then you have people that don't know anything and think they do and ruin your dog! Add all that up...and I'm sure I missed many things... and you have people that drive 5 hours each way for a good trainer and can only go once a week. We work our butts off trying to get our dogs titled in the USA! Show some respect and empathy! Rather than think we are complaining. Most of us aren't, we enjoy it and only wish we could do more!! it's just 5x harder than you spoiled euro's can even imagine. We don't mind hard work! It's what built our country!

D.H., I'd bet if you were in a position to make that same sort of offer (a week-long helper seminar) on the East Coast or Midwest, you'd have a lot more takers--seems as if California and Florida have the lion's share of clubs and helpers, and the rest of the country goes begging. I'm out of SchH now--I moved to the NE corner of Michigan, where I'm lucky to find a small animal vet, let alone someone to train with, and my bitch is 8 years old now--but when I was on the East Coast, the majority of the clubs within commuting distance (figuring 2 hours each way, to allow for training during the week) weren't accepting new members, and weren't interested in taking applications, either. The training director for the sole club that was willing to let me bring my dog out for evaluation putting her down during our initial phone conversation, before he'd even seen her--"show shit", he said, because she's Kirschental & Hirschel lineage. With attitudes like that, is it any wonder why more beginners don't join or stay with clubs, or get the opportunity to learn to do helper work? (BTW, that same club TD also wouldn't even consider letting a woman train as a helper. Unthinkable.)

D.H. wrote: "according to SV rules you can only breed if your dog has at least one SV title. DVG titles or titles from non SV clubs are not accepted if it is the only one the dog has. I assumed it was the same in the North America.” You are absolutely right—I forgot that for breed survey one needs to have at least one SV title and DVG does not use SV judges. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. “In Canada you cannot take a dog that has a DVG BH to an SV SchH1 trial. Pretty silly really.” Now, that I’m not so sure about, unless things have changed. I know that a DVG title in N. America counts and you can have a SchH II from DVG, for example, and a SchH III from USCA—I’ve done it myself. I also qualified once for Canadian Nationals based on my DVG score. Has that changed, too? “Interestingly not a single reply to my offer to organize a SchH/helper seminar. I guess that explains a lot...” Looks like we all agree that there is lack of new young blood in the sport. A two-day, or even a week-long seminar would not accomplish anything in terms of creating new helpers. Helper work requires long-term apprenticeship, it cannot be learned in one week. If I were an experienced helper, I would contact my local Big Brother program, find an athletic kid who happens to like dogs and try to get him interested. The sport just doesn’t have enough exposure to attract people by osmosis—it’s up to us all to do deal with this problem constructively.

Hi yall, I just wanted to write about one thing I keep seeing. People are saying that they have to pay the helper $20.00 per dog to work?I have seen that trend going on for quite some time now.I know that in most states it is highly illegal to charge people for working/selling/ training a dog for anykind of Protection{ANY}unless they have a state license.If you can find out that alone it might stop several from charging you as much. Here they break the law everyday,if a club has a helper he cannot charge unless he has a license from the State Board of Private Investigators office.If they do not have one they can be fined,imprisoned, and more.So Id be sure and ask around,see what you state says about people who train dogs and what the requirements are.If these people are charging they just might be breaking a law,they are stern about it in several states.We should do this for the LOVE not just the EGO nor money.Any monies paid should be taken by the club itself for that alone, not to pay someone to work a dog.I know in Texas as long as there is no exchange of money for the helper then its fine for Sport training,otherwise its WRONG.Many practice this and they shouldnt be.Just thought id say that, many people do not know this. Jerry

I just wanted to point out there are many other things you can do with your dog that can maintain its value and breeding potential. One of the best ways is to volunteer for your local search and rescue group. They can be found by contacting your local law enforcement agency. Sometimes they are tied with your local fire department, and in many locations they have their own groups that cover regions. Of course there are the Federal SAR dogs with FEMA. In our groups case, we do not allow dogs that have been bite trained to participate because of liability issues. Thus my dog will not receive a title, all though is come from top lines in Austria his credentials should speak for themselves.