Breeding untitled dogs - Page 2

Oh, I forgot what the topic is, for a moment. Despite the troubles I described above, I believe that untitled dogs can be bred/bred to if they are actively pursuing SchH or HGH titling. When the SchH/HGH bitch comes in heat again, and there's no title, then no breeding. If I know someone personally who is training their bitch for Agility or advanced Obedience titles, yes, I would CONSIDER breeding to that bitch, if they require spaying and neutering in their puppy contracts.

If titles from other organizations like the DVG or the UKC were accepted for breeding, then probably more dogs would get titled in North America. I always encourage people who buy dogs from me to start a club in their area. Only takes two people to start, a few family members to fill in necessary spots on paper and you're on your way. Take a few puppy buyers, offer puppy classes and advance from there. Once you get people hooked they tend to stick with it. And not everyone has to pursue SchH work. They could stick to only tracking, or only obedience if that is what they prefer. Ok, it is harder to start from scratch, but it is possible. I am always astounded at how much resistance that thought provokes though. If you feel that you need some extra leverage in setting up a club, talk to your local police and see if they have a K9 program. Discuss a joint opportunity for training with them. Large K9 unit will usually not allow civilians, but the smaller rural units might. Most police K9 handlers do their own helper work, because of necessity. There is usually no one else who can do it for them. If your town has no K9 unit, it may be because they see no way to keep up the training of a dog. That would be their opportunity to get a K9 unit with some support from their community (you). Also teaming up with a K9 unit will most likely ensure hassle free training. If you focus on viewing this as community service it will makes things a lot easier for you. Next - people always talk about not having a helper available for training. I hardly ever hear anyone about doing any helper work themselves! There are videos available, equipment can be bought. If you have your own trials and do your own helperwork at the trial then the not so fancy helperwork will not really be a disadvantage, because everyone has to train and trial under the same conditions. And you will get better in time. Once you have a club you can hold your own trials. Thereby being able to get your dogs titled easier and quicker. I have talked to many people in the past about setting up seminars - SchH seminars that include helper seminars. The big hurdle is always that no one is willing to actually pay for it. Bringing someone in from Germany means expenses for flight, accommodation, transportation, etc. Plus such persons need to be reimbursed for their time and expertise. So if anyone is interested I am putting this out here now: I would be willing to organize a one week SchH seminar for next spring that will focus on protection work and will include an introduction to helper work. Location would be West Coast. You must be willing and able to take a week or long weekend off work, travel, pay for accommodation (will see if I can get a reduced rate for participants) and pay for the seminar. If there is ***serious interest*** eMail me, put SchH seminar in the subject line.

Troll's issue is definitely a concern for this country. These organizations such as GSDCA and USCA ought to get their act together and better off consolidated to one organization. These organization should educate insurances and policy makers of what temperament testing such as Sch is all about! Dog1 and kelly I agree 100%. If you can not have the dedication or passion to drive 100 miles to train and title then choose another breed.A short cut to breed is buying a titled dog (expensive). But what would we do to the next generation. All or none! Unregulated, unorganizedsubjective evaluation of breeding specimens by the GSDCA led to the grotesque American Shepherds we see nowadays. I have the utmost respect for breeders who make it a point to get a breed survey for their breeding specimens and register with USA's breed registry. Titling alone and breeding without an intent to breed survey is useless! A sch 3 dog with bad hips or structure is as bad as a well structured dogs without a title. JMHO, Roger.

Kelly wrote: "Albeit, I am a baby in this world compared to most of you. But I think I'm starting off on the right foot. I'm going through gas, time, and money like water. But a person loves the breed as much as they claim, is there really any other way?" Right on, Kelly! I’ve done that for years, and I’m not even a breeder... Seems like the biggest problem with titling is lack of experienced and willing to learn helpers. Ed wrote: "I believe the USCA should develop a program to bridge the time to when we have enough clubs and helpers. I have on my computer something I am working on, that would accomplish this I believe." Good, hurry up! It is, after all, up to us to do something about it—other than complain. In the meantime, wouldn’t it be a good idea to set at least some breeding criteria? How about a BH, or A1-3, TR1-3? You don’t need a helper to achieve that. At least that would separate a responsible breeder from someone who’s only after a buck. Not to mention that it would show that a dog is trainable and has proper temperament. Besides, not everybody is interested in bitework. A BH or TR title may be enough to attract SAR people, for example. Just a suggestion until such time as Ed is done with his program and there are no excuses any more :-)))... Hope springs eternal...

"Next - people always talk about not having a helper available for training. I hardly ever hear anyone about doing any helper work themselves! " My husband is a helper - who does his helper work???? And a bad/not experienced helper can do more damage to a training program.

Right, Sue! Who works the helper's dog?? Also, a helper needs to be quick and AGILE , fast learner, and thick-skinned. If I COULD "Just Do It" as D.H. suggests, I'd heave over from exhaustion, with multiple bite wounds, and marks from stick hits by owners who didn't like my work and I'd start bawling!! What if the only helper around wants to use 99% compulsion IN TRAINING and you wish to use motivation? There's a conflict right there. I can say, "I saw this on an Ivan video and I'd like to try it", and a helper will say, (and has) "Do you want ME to train your dog" [or Ivan or whomever?]; "Who are you going to listen to, [Joe Blow Trainer], or ME?" If there's anyone in Sonoma County, California who wants to start a new club, has a place and knows of a trainer who doesn't charge $20 per dog, per session* speak up, OK? Good idea, D.H., to check with the local K9 unit. *I couldn't AFFORD to train 3-4 dogs, 2-3 times a week! It's cheaper to send them to Europe, and skip the personality differences and headaches, IMO!

D.H. wrote: "If titles from other organizations like the DVG or the UKC were accepted for breeding, then probably more dogs would get titled in North America." Since when are DVG titles not recognized for breeding?

I think the people in the UK who are trying to take the whole WUSV system forward should read these comments on BREEDING UNTITLED DOGS, it brings to the fore the very problems we are to be faced with in ENGLAND, I suggest that to incourage others to take up the sport the very people in the UK who want to take things forward should lead by example and have their dogs trained in England. The BSA it has ben stated are up and running and yet it would appear all our current winning titled dogs in the breed are trained in GERMANY? In Ireland they seem to be setting up or trying to set up a system as in Germany but I think many Show dogs in Ireland are actually trained in Ireland as well, in SCH. We must if we want to take things forward start to prove to the majority of the GSD owners in the UK that we have the trainers in this country to do the job. If not the sport is seen as an expensive hobby just for a few people who train their dogs abroard. The ones who have done this have shown us the way now the same people must start to train here and I am sure more people will see that the vision for the future is possible

"What if the only helper around wants to use 99% compulsion IN TRAINING and you wish to use motivation? There's a conflict right there. I can say, "I saw this on an Ivan video and I'd like to try it", and a helper will say, (and has) "Do you want ME to train your dog" [or Ivan or whomever?]; "Who are you going to listen to, [Joe Blow Trainer], or ME?"" Geez, what sort of helpers do you have??? They are /should be H.E.L.P.E.R.S. (it's from the word help, for crying out loud) "If there's anyone in Sonoma County, California who wants to start a new club, has a place and knows of a trainer who doesn't charge $20 per dog, per session* speak up, OK?" It's more scewed up over there then I though it was :((

"Geez, what sort of helpers do you have???" Egomaniacs. Not all, of course, but more than enough. It IS a big problem here. And the biggest problem is attracting young people, the ones who still have their backs and knees intact. All the good teaching helpers I know are pushing 50 and there's no one to replace them :-( . I'm not kidding--my club friends and I half-seriously considered "importing" a helper from Europe. Free room&board plus pocket change--any takers :-)?