BH - Page 5

For one reason, a long down with your back to the dog while another dog is working on the field is no way comparable to the dog downing for 3 minutes while someone is holding onto the leash. 

Thats exaclty what I meant by quality control with the CGC.  I have seen many CGC tests where the dog is in a long down, while other dogs are clearly working within a distance I would consider distracting.  Like I said taking a CGC with a real AKC judge during "show and go" is not the same as taking it in a sterile Petsmart or Petco retail location with a fly by night CGC evaluator.

My dog has never had trouble with SchH long downs but struggled with the CGC.  The owner has to leave hand their dog off to a stranger and leave the building.  That was hard for my dog.  I basically trained it as a 3 minute long down with me out of sight but when you take the test often the "stranger" tries to pet and console your dog and it's just annoying.  Also when we take the tests there are other people and dogs around, not working at the level of SchH but always in much closer proximity.  One reason I like SchH obedience is because you have this huge field and there's only one other dog and a few other people.

But, the CGC is not comparable, nor do I think it is meant to be.

Thats exaclty what I meant by quality control with the CGC.  I have seen many CGC tests where the dog is in a long down, while other dogs are clearly working within a distance I would consider distracting.  Like I said taking a CGC with a real AKC judge during "show and go" is not the same as taking it in a sterile Petsmart or Petco retail location with a fly by night CGC evaluator.

 

Honestly,

I still do not think they are comparable.  Perhaps it is comparable with the traffic portion of the BH but certainly nowhere close to comparable with the obedience portion.  The average time the obedience working portion takes is approximately 5-6 minutes so you are roughly double the requirements of the CGC seperation exercise plus the dog does not even have to maintain a position for the supervised seperation in the CGC.  Add on the moving sit, down, the recall, and the lengthy heeling and the BH is a whole other ballpark altogether.  Yes, there are some CGC evaluators that are more stringent than others but even the most stringent CGC evaluator cannot make the CGC on par with the BH in my opinion.  Just my opinion though :-)

What is involved in this CGC test, As far as i know we do not have this test in Belgium. well it is possible a similar test at an ordinary Dog training school for all dogs but having never trained in one i would not be sure
Steve1

Steve it's an American Kennel Club test.  You do things like allow a stranger to groom and examine your dog, perform VERY basic obedience (sit, down, recall, short heeling pattern), heel your dog head on to another dog and shake hands with the handler while the dogs must ignore each other, hand your dog's leash to a stranger and leave the building for 3 minutes, etc.

Personally I don't think they are comparable.  I've seen several dogs pass a BH just fine (and some SchH 3 dogs for that matter) that would not pass a CGC test as my trainer-friend and I do them because they are too dog aggressive or too suspicious of other people.  I've got two dogs that I could walk outside and probably pass a BH with right now but would have to brush up before a CGC (mostly b/c they would get too excited walking face to face with a strange dog or they would forget their manners and want to jump up and lick the "stranger" doing the grooming).  I think the BH is "harder" b/c the level of obedience and just the sheer length are by far more challenging than the CGC.  They test totally different things for different reasons.

[quote] I was unaware that Petco had an in in-house training class because they do not have the retail floor space for such.  Perhaps they are working with a 3rd party as Petsmart once did.[/quote]

Petco uses whatever space they have available. Be it dock space in the back where they receive their stock, or floor space where they move some things for the duration of the class. They "contract" their trainers, often converting them from regular associates: they'll pay for your training (not sure about the certification, you might just have to do that one on your own, though the fee isn't much, so it wouldn't surprise me if they did pay just so they could offer the Good Citizen course), but then you have to work for them exclusively for a certain amount of time.

VKGSDs
Many thanks for that, i would think they must have a similar thing in General dog clubs over here, However it is all good training for the dog and owner better than a owner doing nothing with there dogs, and you see that every day. For me there is nothing worse than seeing a dog drag the owner all over the place.
Being me i have to tell the Guy or woman and my usual words are Loose Leash, Loose Leash, but some never know what you are talking about.
Regards one says SCH 3 dogs acting up on such a course . i have never seen problems here
Only a week week Yesterday evening three Guys trained there Dogs on the work field as usual one on a down two working, time was pressing on and usually it is only two dogs, After they finished the Obedience they then walked the Dogs off leash all three up the field and down stopped at a sit. all walked on two gave the Command to Down one to Sit. the dogs were 6 yards apart
The Handlers walked up about 40 paces and turned, stood there for a few seconds
One Called his dog from the Down, the Dog went, The Guy whose dog was sitting walked back to his dog and then came back to the first two Guys with his dog at heel.
When he and his Dog were facing the Dog that was still a Down the Handler called his dog to come to him,. That is what they do at times over here It is a bit of Fun and teaches the Dogs to stay Put until called. You Guys want to try it as it breaks the usual pattern of training.
Steve1

Here is the CGC test... I am a CGC evaluator. This is from AKC website....

http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/training_testing.cfm

I have to laugh at this :) there is no way in hell that a CGC test is even close to a BH LOL
As a CGC trainer and tester with AKC since 2007  I personally know this first hand.

The CGC test is a way to get pet people involved with their pets. It is a very simple/basic training and testing be to "fun" for the new owner. Basically to get them hooked so they will go with the next class of Rally. Yes, all dogs should be able to pass this, as it was designed for a "PET" and owner. Having a stranger groom your dog is to be the same if you took it to a groomer (most pet people do this) the other part is having the front feet picked up (like clipping nails in real life) Checking the ears (like having a vet check the ears) simple things that a vet would do in real life

Going out for a walk on a loose leash (not being pulled) encounters with strangers, other dogs, noises, all of what a Pet owner will come across in a park setting.

Simple obedience from sit, down and recall all things a owner should train their dog to do. Yes, everything is done on a leash. this is no way advance obedience (like the BH) and the last thing is leaving your dog with a stranger. This is to see if your dog has seperation issues but also if in a emergy or at the vet, someone has to hold your dog for what ever reason will the dog flip out?
 Again everything a pet owner would come across.

Now the BH is a route, it is not real life persay in a everyday setting. But it is way more demanding and more time and training is needed. It is harder and more rewarding then a CGC (IMPO) as you know you worked your butt off getting that passing score (if done right).

For me anyone wanting to do "something" with their dog is better then nothing. but there is no comparison between these two IMPO