Question for the Service Dog People on Here - Page 4

Does the government provide dogs or any training for service dogs for military who have been granted disability discharges? If not, I think they should.

.Well there are dishonest people all over the place; and YES I also think that service dogs should have to have some sort of identification and proof carried on the dog or person so that businesses/public know that the dog is a working animal for  'REAL'  and a 'REAL" NEED. 

Also whom are "WE" to determine whether one disability warrants a service dog or not;  I know mine does and other wheelers; but you cannot always tell by looking at a person what "their" disability could be, nor is it anyone's business.  That is discrimination in it's worst form.  Not to mention very embarrasing to that person with the disability to have to announce in public that they have some type of disability.  And you cannot tell by looking at someone they have some sort of heart condition or PTSD or a brain injury.  My disability is quite obvious so I usually do not have to explain anything to anyone.  I have had 3 service dogs since my accident that put me permanently in a wheelchair and on occasion I do still have to explain that my dog can go anywhere I can go.  However, I would never ever take advantage of this prevlige, I saw a cockatiel as a service animal??  Nan

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then about certification :) I think there will always be dishonest people. It is already a felony in some states to fake a service dog and that does not stop people. Couldn't they just fake ID cards as well? Should businesses have to check a special database of people with disabilities every time someone with a service dog wants access to their business? Are they going to have to have barcodes on their wrists?? Hyperbole aside ;-) my question to people who support increased regulation and a certification process: who is going to pay for this and how are we going to get around the logistical nightmare?

We're already seeing the effects on military service personnel of requiring a particular certifying organization. The ADI is not in 18 states. Military personnel, already dealing with terrible difficulties due to their disabilities sustained while in service to their country, who in some cases may have had their service animal for years, find their animals don't qualify. They can buy one for thousands and thousands of dollars. Or, get in line for the few organizations that are ADI members and also donate dogs. Many organizations that used to donate service dogs to military personnel are no longer able to because of the new policy. This is NOT helpful to our service members.

Where are these certifications for civilian service dogs going to take place? How often are they going to be held? Remember, each person's disability is unique to their situation and the tasks the service animal should be trained in have to be tailored to that person, so while they might be able to have a certain set of "basic manners" requirements like those found in a CGC, the tester will not have a checklist to go through of what the dog should be able to do. Who is going to train these testers???

To me, the current system is more protective to people with disabilities and that is what I am concerned with. I think that education on current law might be a better way to go, as well as placing the blame where it belongs...on those unethical people that disregard current law.

To me, whether a person is "disabled" and whether a Service Dog is applicable is not determined by some card but by that person's physician(s).

Doctors don't know squat about service needs or dogs;  that would not work.  That would be like giving everyone a disabled parking placard like they have done and have parking enendated by people that REALLY do not need them at all but the doctor wrote a script for one therefore they now have one.  NO we are talking about dogs that are needed by disabled people to assist; help and protect their disabled person.  Doctors do not have that knowledge.  Bye for now  Nan

I could not agree more Nans gsd. 

Mollyandjack, thanks for getting the facts straight.

I have disabilities that impair my mobility, and I have been using service dogs (German Shepherds) for more than 10 years.

I have repeatedly been harassed about my service dogs. This has nothing to do with people using fake service dogs to sneak their dogs in. Claiming that it does is like saying people who hate African-Americans feel that way because some African-Americans commit crimes. Bigots are bigots. The excuse doesn't matter. I was harassed about my service dog long before the fake service dog trick started showing up.

Although faking a service dog is an incredibly crappy thing to do, a fake service dog is a major problem only if he behaves badly. A real service dog who behaves badly is also a major problem. The law allows a business owner to kick out a service dog who is behaving badly. This solves the problem of fake (or real) service dogs who act like ninnies.

People who fake a disability and bring in a fake service dog are already committing criminal acts. Why would adding more regulations by requiring service dog certification stop them? Anyone can fake an ID and certification papers.

What service dog certification would do is make life even harder for disabled people. It's hard enough as it is to get a service dog. You can: 1) pay a mint for a trained service dog; 2) become a skilled dog trainer, pay a lot for a mentally and physically sound green dog (who still may not work out as a service dog), and train the dog; or 3) get in a very long line and wait at least a year for a free service dog--which is very unlikely to be a German Shepherd. The idea that wonderful potential service dogs are to be found by the dozens at every dog pound is a myth. I've trained plenty of rescue dogs for people, and while many can do fine as service dogs at home, they are not the superdogs needed to calmly handle the stresses of working in public, where they are crowded, trampled on, grabbed by strangers, and poked in the ears and eyes by toddlers. I know there are rescue dogs that can do public service dog work, but this is not a quick or easy way to get a service dog. Most dogs, regardless of whether they're rescue dogs, cannot do public service dog work. It's no accident that Fidelco, which provides GSD guide dogs, has its own breeding program.

For disabled people, government-required service dog certification would mean hefty fees, difficult trips to a certification location, and burdensome government requirements and restrictions. Eventually certain breeds would be banned by the government for service dog work, and German Shepherds would be at the top of the list. Like other disabled people, I have enough disability-related problems without the government barging into my life and jerking me and my service dog around.

One group would benefit greatly from required certification of service dogs: dog trainers whose income comes from dog training. What a gold mine for them! They are the biggest group pushing for certification. Almost all of the disabled people with service dogs that I've heard express an opinion on certification are strongly opposed to it.

The Department of Justice found all this out a few years ago when it considered the issue of service dog certification and encouraged people to submit their comments. After investigating the issue, this is what the DOJ decided:

The Department [of Justice] has always required that service animals be individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, but has never imposed any type of formal training requirements or certification process.  While some groups have urged the Department to modify this position, the Department does not believe such a modification would serve the array of individuals with disabilities who use service animals. . . .
 
Some commenters proposed behavior or training standards for the Department to adopt in its revised regulation, not only to remain in keeping with the requirement for individual training, but also on the basis that without training standards the public has no way to differentiate between untrained pets and service animals.  Because of the variety of individual training that a service animal can receive--from formal licensing at an academy to individual training on how to respond to the onset of medical conditions, such as seizures--the Department is not inclined to establish a standard that all service animals must meet.  While the Department does not plan to change the current policy of no formal training or certification requirements, some of the behavioral standards that it has proposed actually relate to suitability for public access, such as being housebroken and under the control of its handler.
 
http://www.ada.gov/archive/NPRM2008/titleiii.htm#toc_11f

More info can be found at:

http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm

and

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.pdf

By the way, a cockatiel hasn't been legal as a service animal since March, 2011. Only dogs and, under some circumstances, miniature horses, are legal service animals. I checked out the miniature horse thing, and it's legit. The advantage of horses over dogs is that they live so much longer.

Back to the OP's original subject. A dog cannot be trained to alert to migraines or seizures. They either have this ability or they don't. However, dogs that do alert can be trained in what is needed to be a legal service dog, if they have the right stuff: good manners in public despite all kinds of aggravation, trained behaviors such as pawing the owner to clearly signal that a migraine or seizure is coming, and training to perform at least three tasks that help the person with her disability, such as providing mobility support when a migraine or seizure is imminent, providing mobility support when the person is recovering from a seizure or in the middle of a migraine attack, and carrying things in a backpack so the person doesn't lose them or have them stolen when totally disabled by a seizure or barely able to function when a migraine hits.

Susan&the K9s - very fascinating and informative post.  Thank you.

Excellent, excellent post susanandthek9s. I completely agree that the problems people experience are mostly due to bigots.

I agree Susan excellent post. And I do agree with you and my personal belief is a lot of things dogs do they either have it or they don't. Thank you for your input.