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by Chaz Reinhold on 02 December 2011 - 22:12
Thomas will probably just tell you to do whatever you want with "YOUR" money.
by beetree on 02 December 2011 - 22:12
True Chaz, but he may not LIKE IT, when all is said and done.
by hexe on 02 December 2011 - 22:12
Dobermannman wrote:
"Al pointed the finger at members of MSSV (his old Schutzhund club). Read the police report
He stated "someone had it in for me and stole and killed my dog" in a TV interview."
Oh for heaven's sake, Dobermannman, now you're really making a huge stretch--aside from the individuals are actively involved in it, who do you believe knew about whatever is happening between the Govedniks and "his old Schutzhund club"? Do you really think the general public had heard tell? All of the "Schutzhund community", as well as those of us who observe from the bleachers? People who have never before heard of Schutzhund, but are active in other dog activities?
Or are you under the impression that Al Govednik is such a SAINT that the ONLY person or persons he could think might have "had it in for" him were members of that club? Again, I must point out that I've never met the guy, nor anyone in the family, and I don't even think I ever met anyone in that club--but I'm reasonably confident that like most humans, Al Govednik has had disputes of various degrees with far more people than just that limited circle of club members, and some of those unaffiliated with the club who he's had a conflict with just might be vindictive enough to perpetrate something as heinous as stealing a dog, killing it or being unable to prevent it from being killed, and then returning the dog's body to the owner's home.
This kind of shit has been documented to happen when a neighbor dislikes the dog, or thinks it barks too much, complains but decides the local law enforcement isn't responsive enough, and takes the matter into their own hands. I lived in the freakin' NJ Pine Barrens years ago, and had a hobby sled dog kennel; the very day I moved to the property, while we were still setting up the kennel runs, the neighbor on the next property approached me and asked what we were doing. When I told her, she informed me that she didn't think "this was the right place" for that, that she didn't like the idea of us living there, she didn't like ",big dogs", and we should move to Alaska. She went on to use the local health department, animal control officers and the local court to harass us, until all of them refused to respond to her calls because they were unfounded. When that happened, she ramped things up, and suddenly I had a healthy 7 year old Siberian 'drop dead' in his kennel overnight. Dogs literally 'disappeared' while I was at work. It stopped only when I hired an attorney and sued HER for harassment. Shortly after the whole drama started, I learned from others in the village that this woman had been watching the property for years, hoping it would go to foreclosure and be offered at Sheriff's Sale so she could pick it up on the cheap for her daughter...and we thwarted that plan.
So I DO know what some people are capable of doing when they've decided you're their opponent, and that's why I'm able to think beyond some club member dispute and be open to the idea that someone was pissed off at Al Govednik and wanted to do something that would really, REALLY cut into his heart and soul...but who drew the line at harming a human (for now, at least).
"Al pointed the finger at members of MSSV (his old Schutzhund club). Read the police report
He stated "someone had it in for me and stole and killed my dog" in a TV interview."
Oh for heaven's sake, Dobermannman, now you're really making a huge stretch--aside from the individuals are actively involved in it, who do you believe knew about whatever is happening between the Govedniks and "his old Schutzhund club"? Do you really think the general public had heard tell? All of the "Schutzhund community", as well as those of us who observe from the bleachers? People who have never before heard of Schutzhund, but are active in other dog activities?
Or are you under the impression that Al Govednik is such a SAINT that the ONLY person or persons he could think might have "had it in for" him were members of that club? Again, I must point out that I've never met the guy, nor anyone in the family, and I don't even think I ever met anyone in that club--but I'm reasonably confident that like most humans, Al Govednik has had disputes of various degrees with far more people than just that limited circle of club members, and some of those unaffiliated with the club who he's had a conflict with just might be vindictive enough to perpetrate something as heinous as stealing a dog, killing it or being unable to prevent it from being killed, and then returning the dog's body to the owner's home.
This kind of shit has been documented to happen when a neighbor dislikes the dog, or thinks it barks too much, complains but decides the local law enforcement isn't responsive enough, and takes the matter into their own hands. I lived in the freakin' NJ Pine Barrens years ago, and had a hobby sled dog kennel; the very day I moved to the property, while we were still setting up the kennel runs, the neighbor on the next property approached me and asked what we were doing. When I told her, she informed me that she didn't think "this was the right place" for that, that she didn't like the idea of us living there, she didn't like ",big dogs", and we should move to Alaska. She went on to use the local health department, animal control officers and the local court to harass us, until all of them refused to respond to her calls because they were unfounded. When that happened, she ramped things up, and suddenly I had a healthy 7 year old Siberian 'drop dead' in his kennel overnight. Dogs literally 'disappeared' while I was at work. It stopped only when I hired an attorney and sued HER for harassment. Shortly after the whole drama started, I learned from others in the village that this woman had been watching the property for years, hoping it would go to foreclosure and be offered at Sheriff's Sale so she could pick it up on the cheap for her daughter...and we thwarted that plan.
So I DO know what some people are capable of doing when they've decided you're their opponent, and that's why I'm able to think beyond some club member dispute and be open to the idea that someone was pissed off at Al Govednik and wanted to do something that would really, REALLY cut into his heart and soul...but who drew the line at harming a human (for now, at least).
by hexe on 02 December 2011 - 22:12
Chaz Reinhold wrote:
"But if you believe that isn't asking for money, I should just spit in the bum's cup, the next time I go downtown. Because he's not asking for money, right? He's just holding a cup out."
Well, I guess if you're in the habit of spitting in any uncovered cup you see being held by someone, sure, go ahead. (If that *does* happen to be a hobby of yours, I hope I'm able to recognize you if we're ever in the same place at the same time, because I'll make sure I keep any cup I might be holding *covered*!) Because he's NOT asking for money--he's providing a place for you to *put* money, if you have such an inclination, and counting on your powers of perception to identify that he's a person who'd welcome such an offering. "Bums" who ask for money do just that--they ASK you for it. "Got any change you can spare?" "Can you help me?" and so forth. Some are so aggressive that they'll follow you right into a store, wait for you to make a purchase, and ask you for the change if you pay in cash; and if you pay with plastic, they'll ask if you'll get some cash back for them.
If you'd be interested in donating money to a "fence fund", someone could certainly establish one, but I don't think doing that would meet with Dobermannmans approval, either.
"But if you believe that isn't asking for money, I should just spit in the bum's cup, the next time I go downtown. Because he's not asking for money, right? He's just holding a cup out."
Well, I guess if you're in the habit of spitting in any uncovered cup you see being held by someone, sure, go ahead. (If that *does* happen to be a hobby of yours, I hope I'm able to recognize you if we're ever in the same place at the same time, because I'll make sure I keep any cup I might be holding *covered*!) Because he's NOT asking for money--he's providing a place for you to *put* money, if you have such an inclination, and counting on your powers of perception to identify that he's a person who'd welcome such an offering. "Bums" who ask for money do just that--they ASK you for it. "Got any change you can spare?" "Can you help me?" and so forth. Some are so aggressive that they'll follow you right into a store, wait for you to make a purchase, and ask you for the change if you pay in cash; and if you pay with plastic, they'll ask if you'll get some cash back for them.
If you'd be interested in donating money to a "fence fund", someone could certainly establish one, but I don't think doing that would meet with Dobermannmans approval, either.
by Dobermannman on 02 December 2011 - 23:12
| Thomas, I have some money coming in soon. It's somewhat substantial. How would you like me to spend it? | |
| Jeni |
|
If it's burning a hole in your pocket? I'd suggest buying a Fence
Thomas Barriano
by beetree on 02 December 2011 - 23:12
Hey there Thomas! I think an e-fence in the front of the property could be a benefit whenever a house fronts at least a secondary road used to traffic going above 25 mph. I have one, myself.
I just wonder why you are so suspicious of the poor owners, whose dog is dead.
I just wonder why you are so suspicious of the poor owners, whose dog is dead.
by Jenni78 on 03 December 2011 - 00:12
Oh, I learned my fence lesson years ago. Spent thousands on a lovely 6' privacy fence which they fly over like gazelles.
by Dobermannman on 03 December 2011 - 00:12
Bee Tree
I totally agree about the fence. If you don't have a fence then keep the dogs in the backyard or keep an eye on them. Don't let them run unattended while you go back in to get a second bag of trash or whatever.
I was totally emphathic and sympathic when the story first came out. I was concerned when the
"hang em from the highest tree" hysteria started, but pretty much didn't say a lot, UNTIL
I saw the sheriffs report and necropsy. It is obvious that a lot of what we were told or led to
believe just isn't possible. I think it is hypocritcal to start calling for patience now when a lot of the
same people were part of the initial hysteria. We'll see what the same people have to say when the final report(s) come in
Thomas Barriano
I totally agree about the fence. If you don't have a fence then keep the dogs in the backyard or keep an eye on them. Don't let them run unattended while you go back in to get a second bag of trash or whatever.
I was totally emphathic and sympathic when the story first came out. I was concerned when the
"hang em from the highest tree" hysteria started, but pretty much didn't say a lot, UNTIL
I saw the sheriffs report and necropsy. It is obvious that a lot of what we were told or led to
believe just isn't possible. I think it is hypocritcal to start calling for patience now when a lot of the
same people were part of the initial hysteria. We'll see what the same people have to say when the final report(s) come in
Thomas Barriano
by OnyxGSD on 03 December 2011 - 20:12
Thomas,
I couldn’t agree more, I wasn’t interested in much of this craziness until I heard the USCA canceled the Hex Memorial involvement at Nationals and removed the story from their site, yikes!! After that I learned that the actual police report was published on Grass Roots, that was an interesting read, 30+ pages. Sounds to me like someone wanted us to all open our eyes to what’s really going on here.
I’ve muddled through the haze of this whole mess, regardless of the dogs status (champion dog/house pet/barn dog), my heart breaks for them and their loss, absolutely terrible. And the worse thing about it is the fact that it could’ve been prevented had the family secured the dog :( I think the lesson in this, is that accidents happen too quickly, that we really should take every precaution to keep our ‘family members’ safe from harm!
I admire those that donated money to the family, but too feel like they should know that the Govedniks are using it for a private investigation. Why in the world would they exhaust THOUSANDS of dollars on extending such a tragic event when the real police officials have already closed the case?! What is a PI going to uncover that senior officers and a team of veterinarians haven’t already determined?! My gosh, it’s even written in the report, “…Dr. Venema said the injuries the animal suffered are consistent with it being struck by a vehicle…”. And like you noted, the semi driver admitted the accident. All the donations in the world can’t rewind time :(
I couldn’t agree more, I wasn’t interested in much of this craziness until I heard the USCA canceled the Hex Memorial involvement at Nationals and removed the story from their site, yikes!! After that I learned that the actual police report was published on Grass Roots, that was an interesting read, 30+ pages. Sounds to me like someone wanted us to all open our eyes to what’s really going on here.
I’ve muddled through the haze of this whole mess, regardless of the dogs status (champion dog/house pet/barn dog), my heart breaks for them and their loss, absolutely terrible. And the worse thing about it is the fact that it could’ve been prevented had the family secured the dog :( I think the lesson in this, is that accidents happen too quickly, that we really should take every precaution to keep our ‘family members’ safe from harm!
I admire those that donated money to the family, but too feel like they should know that the Govedniks are using it for a private investigation. Why in the world would they exhaust THOUSANDS of dollars on extending such a tragic event when the real police officials have already closed the case?! What is a PI going to uncover that senior officers and a team of veterinarians haven’t already determined?! My gosh, it’s even written in the report, “…Dr. Venema said the injuries the animal suffered are consistent with it being struck by a vehicle…”. And like you noted, the semi driver admitted the accident. All the donations in the world can’t rewind time :(
by hunger4justice on 03 December 2011 - 22:12
Um...as a former prosecutor and defense attorney, let me say I have seen great investigative work and I have seen lazy police work that is inexcusable. Just because a case is closed or cold, and sometimes even when there has been a conviction, it does not mean the investigators got it right. I don't blame them for wanting their own fact finders.
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