Looking for true social aggression and protective instinct - Page 3

Hexe, to me what you are describing is a neutral, aloof dog. If the dog is not actively being aggressive while people are "invading" his space, but instead is studying and evaluating without being demonstrative, then that doesn't describe what I would call socially aggressive.

So then a socially aggressive dog would be more apt to growl at a handler or another dog if they were entering their space? Say sitting next to you on the couch? Or do you only want to see it displayed with other dogs a part of their pack? Are you talking about the same type of social aggression as described here? http://www.schutzhundvillage.com/drives.html

There is a great deal of useful advice in the description on Schaeferhund's link;
I particularly liked the bit about ppl expecting the finished article from the outset
when it comes to aggressive drive, when ideally it should be developed, trained for.

Not sure if this link has been posted....
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=167548&pagen=1

Vixen you are quite right, but if the less than stellar background is manifested by shyness weak nerves, the different nurturing will show differences but the shyness or weak nerves will still be there whenever stress is imposed on the dog, conversely if the better pedigree dog has strong nerves and bombproof temperament, the different nurturing again will impact the outcome, but the dog will easily adjust to the different nurturing and be capable being the utility dog of its breeding and genetics. 

Genetics will usually override environment, as Gustav pointed out. I'll give an example of what I would consider good genetic nerves....about two months ago the satellite dish installer was here doing some "installing". I had my, then eight month old, female out for a run and ball work. Before bringing her in the house, I took her off the end of the porch to the water bucket, which is located next to the fire place chimney, for a drink. The installer guy was standing on the outside of the fire place about five feet up. While my pup was drinking, the guy jumped off and landed three feet away from her. She didn't indicate that she was aware of him being up there, so when this man landed with a thud from out of nowhere next to her, she inadvertently knocked over the bucket and crashed between my knees, getting the hell out of the way of whatever, to her, had crashed to the ground. Immediately she assessed the situation, and went back to the now empty bucket, with her back to the stranger, to finnish her rudely interrupted drink.

Hello Gustav,  What a pity, this cannot be a get-together discussion, (easier than writing)!  The topic alone of nature/nurture holds a wide variety of scenarios.  An Owner can affect, by improving or lowering the attitude, performance and confidence of a dog.  For instance a "shyly" bred dog can gain in confidence (not 100% as required, but certainly an improvement), or worse become weaker, due to the interaction with the Owner.  Equally, a "strong nerved" dog can "adjust", but this could be detrimental, if it is in relation to inappropriate training and guiding Ownership, i.e. the adjustment could mean promoting him/herself over the Owner or anyone else, which is equally not ideal. 

Breeding with dedicated care of the relevant Breed, in producing the required Standards.
Being prepared to guide, rear and train that dog appropriately.  Owner gaining experience to recognise and adjust.
(Owners need to learn 'dog' - and know how to work together to gain and achieve).

Good to share,
Regards,
Vixen

FCI Standard Nr. 166 for the German Shepherd Dog : "The German Shepherd must be self assured, balanced with strong nerves and absolutely impartial behaviour, while maintaining a good nature-until pushed to the limit. The dog must be vibrant and easy going. Furthermore the dog must be courageous, have a strong fighting instinct and posses firm nerves. These are essential requirements since the dog is to be used as companion, guardian, protector and a working sheepdog". Where in the breed standard do you see socially aggressive or the dog should react aggressively to some one approaching it's space before they even know the dog is there? We still do not know what the OP is looking for when asking for social aggression, the term means different things to different people. I do not want a GSD with the temperament of a Rottweiler,I have no problem with law enforcement or the military steering the breed to meet their needs but you need to ask yourself if you want to become a slave to a dog that you have to put up when friends or relatives come by the house. I like joanro's description of her pup, one that reacts to protect herself but quickly recovers and sees no threat from the stranger when there is no reason for it and goes on with her business. 

I know of one male like that. He is a dick to people, has his favorite ones but overall he is one of the most socially challenged dogs I haveever met.. he is ok with me, I ignore him, I have no desire to be buddy buddy so we tolerate each other.

Can;t be in publick without a muzzle, he will go after anybody who even looks at him. Eye contact is NOT recommended for that dog, he will bite for sure, guard car well, is a handsome fella. Lives on a farm and likes the husband only. The wife and him would get into constant fights. Now she leaves him alone the dog loves to work for the hubby. The dog has rater short fuse, shitty bite, weak nerves and most of the time can't handle pressure but innitially he will try to bite anybody! A perfect Junk yard dog!..

Do you want me to find out who bred the dog? he was imported from germany and is a showline...