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by GSDNewbie on 25 May 2011 - 16:05
Why would anyone choose to change the name of a dog? you do not have to call them by that name. I am interested in hearing why people would change the names in the first place. Why did you choose to change your dogs name?
by Mystere on 25 May 2011 - 16:05
GSDNEwbie,
Because I WANT TO and I CAN.
Those who actually know me personally know what is behind my decision and respect it. Period. But, as you are curious, let me set out a few reasons why anyone might choose to do so:
1. They don't like the name that the BREEDER may have given the dog.
2. They don't like the breeder.
3. The breeder has wonderful stock, but a rotten reputation Ergo, the owner wishes not to be associated with that kennel name.
4. The owner lives in an area and is involved in a dog activity where there are several other dogs with the same name.
5. The owner has had an entire series of dogs and likes for them all to have the same name. (My grandmother is an example. The woman owned several German Spitz dogs over several decades. Each and every single one of them was named Lady. She just liked that name for a dog.)
6. The owner has additional dogs and has a "cute" "theme" going with the names.
7. A co-owner hates the original name.
8. The breeder has demonstrated a propensity not to stand behind the dogs bred.
9. The breeder and owner get into a dispute about the dog and/or the contract.
10. The owner is involved in a divorce and the spouse named the dog.
11. The owner is involved in a divorce and re-names the dog with the spouse's name.
Because I WANT TO and I CAN.
Those who actually know me personally know what is behind my decision and respect it. Period. But, as you are curious, let me set out a few reasons why anyone might choose to do so:1. They don't like the name that the BREEDER may have given the dog.
2. They don't like the breeder.
3. The breeder has wonderful stock, but a rotten reputation Ergo, the owner wishes not to be associated with that kennel name.
4. The owner lives in an area and is involved in a dog activity where there are several other dogs with the same name.
5. The owner has had an entire series of dogs and likes for them all to have the same name. (My grandmother is an example. The woman owned several German Spitz dogs over several decades. Each and every single one of them was named Lady. She just liked that name for a dog.)
6. The owner has additional dogs and has a "cute" "theme" going with the names.
7. A co-owner hates the original name.
8. The breeder has demonstrated a propensity not to stand behind the dogs bred.
9. The breeder and owner get into a dispute about the dog and/or the contract.
10. The owner is involved in a divorce and the spouse named the dog.
11. The owner is involved in a divorce and re-names the dog with the spouse's name.
by GSDNewbie on 25 May 2011 - 16:05
Some of those are what I was thinking and some are ones I never would have guessed. Interested in any other reasons others have to add.
by StephanieJ on 25 May 2011 - 17:05
M: "The AKC registration is required for the USCA/SV dual registration. The SV mandated that several years ago. The USCA/SV registration is asupplemental registration; it is not meant to be a substitute for the AKC registration, as FCI only recognizes one registry per country and in the US that recognized registry is the AKC."
S: Re the USCA/SV reg: Is it dual or is it supplemental? If the latter, it has about as much worth as toilet paper. Oh wait. Toilet paper has an actual use, so it would be more valuable than said pink papers.
FCI will recognize breedings done on American soil if the breeding is done in compliance with the international parent club's requirements. The dogs will have FCI papers. I know this to be true because I have bred FCI reg litters in America. (Note: NOT GSDs).
What ever happened to USCA being a Landesgruppen?
M: "The breeder has NO right or obligation to put their name on anything by dint of a breed survey. The survey is supposed to reflect the breed worthiness of the dog--nothing more."
S: But the pink papers which reflect the breed worthiness of the pink papered puppy's parents belong to that individual puppy. The information on the pedigree is meant to convey facts regarding the puppy's ancestry, not a whim of an owner.
M: "I want the pink papers changed to reflect the same name as the AKC registration and the scorebook. Why wouldn't I want all the paperwork to reflect the same name? "
S: Well of course a dog should have only one name no matter how many organizations it is registered with, just as it should have only one scorebook no matter which/how many venues it competes in. My query went to why you would choose to change the name in the first place, esp. as it seems now that you anticipated there was the possibility of not being able to reconcile your choice with both registries and that your dog now has two names.
M: "Frankly, I am not convinced that the SV is going to allow any such change, but because the AKC did, and the SV requires the AKC registration, it may. We will just have to see."
S: I am very interested to see how the SV will respond. Please keep us posted.
M: "By the way--there are individual USCA/SV registrations all the time. The pink papers come back on such registrations reflecting the dog as an "only" with no litter mates. There is no reference to the littermates by name, as there is when the entire litter is registered. Otherwise, the papers are the same. It will be the same with the name-change. The SV requires the return of the orginal pink papers, though."
S: All the more reason why America makes no progress in breeding. Thanks for your reply.
S: Re the USCA/SV reg: Is it dual or is it supplemental? If the latter, it has about as much worth as toilet paper. Oh wait. Toilet paper has an actual use, so it would be more valuable than said pink papers.
FCI will recognize breedings done on American soil if the breeding is done in compliance with the international parent club's requirements. The dogs will have FCI papers. I know this to be true because I have bred FCI reg litters in America. (Note: NOT GSDs).
What ever happened to USCA being a Landesgruppen?
M: "The breeder has NO right or obligation to put their name on anything by dint of a breed survey. The survey is supposed to reflect the breed worthiness of the dog--nothing more."
S: But the pink papers which reflect the breed worthiness of the pink papered puppy's parents belong to that individual puppy. The information on the pedigree is meant to convey facts regarding the puppy's ancestry, not a whim of an owner.
M: "I want the pink papers changed to reflect the same name as the AKC registration and the scorebook. Why wouldn't I want all the paperwork to reflect the same name?
"S: Well of course a dog should have only one name no matter how many organizations it is registered with, just as it should have only one scorebook no matter which/how many venues it competes in. My query went to why you would choose to change the name in the first place, esp. as it seems now that you anticipated there was the possibility of not being able to reconcile your choice with both registries and that your dog now has two names.
M: "Frankly, I am not convinced that the SV is going to allow any such change, but because the AKC did, and the SV requires the AKC registration, it may. We will just have to see."
S: I am very interested to see how the SV will respond. Please keep us posted.
M: "By the way--there are individual USCA/SV registrations all the time. The pink papers come back on such registrations reflecting the dog as an "only" with no litter mates. There is no reference to the littermates by name, as there is when the entire litter is registered. Otherwise, the papers are the same. It will be the same with the name-change. The SV requires the return of the orginal pink papers, though.
"S: All the more reason why America makes no progress in breeding. Thanks for your reply.
by Mystere on 25 May 2011 - 18:05
Stephanie,
The answer is that it is both: it is dual (USCA & SV) and it is supplemental to the AKC registration. The reason? There is much more information on the SV pedigree that results than there is on the AKC registration, which,until very recently, did not reflect the schutzhund titles at all. Further, when the entire litter is registered, there is at least the number and names of the siblings; that could be helpful down the line. Third, and most important to some, it distinquishes the European lines, even on paper, from the Ambred counterparts. The dogs are entered into the SV's breed books, and assigned SV numbers, as well. They are factored into antecedents' ZW scores. In essence, they become part of the breed record-keeping scheme, which they do not as simply AKC-registered dogs. That makes it considerably more valuable than toilet paper to some of us.
The answer is that it is both: it is dual (USCA & SV) and it is supplemental to the AKC registration. The reason? There is much more information on the SV pedigree that results than there is on the AKC registration, which,until very recently, did not reflect the schutzhund titles at all. Further, when the entire litter is registered, there is at least the number and names of the siblings; that could be helpful down the line. Third, and most important to some, it distinquishes the European lines, even on paper, from the Ambred counterparts. The dogs are entered into the SV's breed books, and assigned SV numbers, as well. They are factored into antecedents' ZW scores. In essence, they become part of the breed record-keeping scheme, which they do not as simply AKC-registered dogs. That makes it considerably more valuable than toilet paper to some of us.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 25 May 2011 - 18:05
You want pink papers changed ? Why are you trying to hide the identity of the dog ? This is shady shit. Don't do that. Just leave the name be, and do like the rest of us and talk bad about the person that sold you the dog. HA HA.
by GSDNewbie on 25 May 2011 - 19:05
The sire and dam do not change. The dog will still be recognised by this when entered or a pedigree is done. But I agree with Jeff on how all of this sounds.
by StephanieJ on 25 May 2011 - 19:05
M: "The answer is that it is both: it is dual (USCA & SV) and it is supplemental to the AKC registration."
S: It is not dual if it can not stand by itself (without AKC). It is less than toilet paper.
M: "The reason? There is much more information on the SV pedigree that results than there is on the AKC registration, which,until very recently, did not reflect the schutzhund titles at all. Further, when the entire litter is registered, there is at least the number and names of the siblings; that could be helpful down the line."
S: You just said in a previous post that there are many individual USCA reg. and that the unUSCA reg siblings would not be noted on the ahnentafel. How exactly would one know if this is the case (that it is an individual reg.) or if it is from a single pup litter from the paperwork?
Since AKC peds now reflect some working titles, what is the advantage to having a USCA ped that may or may not reflect the dog's information accurately and may or may not note the same registered name, other than the fact that is is pretty in pink?
M: "Third, and most important to some, it distinquishes the European lines, even on paper, from the Ambred counterparts."
S: No to nitpick, but a dog born on American soil is Am-bred. And if one can "fiddle" with the paperwork by way of changing the dog's name and not accurately noting information such as how many puppies were in it's litter,the paperwork becomes less than honest .
M: "The dogs are entered into the SV's breed books, and assigned SV numbers, as well. They are factored into antecedents' ZW scores. In essence, they become part of the breed record-keeping scheme, which they do not as simply AKC-registered dogs. That makes it considerably more valuable than toilet paper to some of us."
S: Sounds to me like it is useful to the SV in a financial and recording kind of way, but I still fail to see how it benefits American breeders, esp those trying to dot their i's and cross their t's if it is allowable for changes to be made to the original paperwork.
S: It is not dual if it can not stand by itself (without AKC). It is less than toilet paper.
M: "The reason? There is much more information on the SV pedigree that results than there is on the AKC registration, which,until very recently, did not reflect the schutzhund titles at all. Further, when the entire litter is registered, there is at least the number and names of the siblings; that could be helpful down the line."
S: You just said in a previous post that there are many individual USCA reg. and that the unUSCA reg siblings would not be noted on the ahnentafel. How exactly would one know if this is the case (that it is an individual reg.) or if it is from a single pup litter from the paperwork?
Since AKC peds now reflect some working titles, what is the advantage to having a USCA ped that may or may not reflect the dog's information accurately and may or may not note the same registered name, other than the fact that is is pretty in pink?
M: "Third, and most important to some, it distinquishes the European lines, even on paper, from the Ambred counterparts."
S: No to nitpick, but a dog born on American soil is Am-bred. And if one can "fiddle" with the paperwork by way of changing the dog's name and not accurately noting information such as how many puppies were in it's litter,the paperwork becomes less than honest .
M: "The dogs are entered into the SV's breed books, and assigned SV numbers, as well. They are factored into antecedents' ZW scores. In essence, they become part of the breed record-keeping scheme, which they do not as simply AKC-registered dogs. That makes it considerably more valuable than toilet paper to some of us."
S: Sounds to me like it is useful to the SV in a financial and recording kind of way, but I still fail to see how it benefits American breeders, esp those trying to dot their i's and cross their t's if it is allowable for changes to be made to the original paperwork.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 25 May 2011 - 20:05
This person has to be a lawyer, as they are good at doing this scumbag stuff. Setting precedents for later bla bla bla.
Stop being a baby, I cannot BELIEVE that the akcthatyougiveyourmoneytous allows this.
Stop being a baby, I cannot BELIEVE that the akcthatyougiveyourmoneytous allows this.
by Mystere on 25 May 2011 - 20:05
Stephanie,
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion-informed, uninformed, intelligent or just plain-ass stupid. I am damn glad I did it and would do it again, should I feel so inclined. But, as this matter involved MY dog and MY decision, your opinion about changing the registered name, or the reason for it in any respect, counts "less than toilet paper" --literally.
I am not a breeder. I really don't care how anything benefits breeders. Moreover, I never said it benefitted any breeder. You wanted to know why the dual registration (DUAL--meaning DUALLY USCA/SV-can't make it plainer), was desirable, presumably, to me. I told you. That you disagree is immaterial.
Further, now that the topic has attracted the attention of miscreants on the butt of dogsport, I will leave the topic. If you or other rational individuals wish to discuss this further with me, you can do so via pm.
Adieu.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion-informed, uninformed, intelligent or just plain-ass stupid. I am damn glad I did it and would do it again, should I feel so inclined. But, as this matter involved MY dog and MY decision, your opinion about changing the registered name, or the reason for it in any respect, counts "less than toilet paper" --literally.
I am not a breeder. I really don't care how anything benefits breeders. Moreover, I never said it benefitted any breeder. You wanted to know why the dual registration (DUAL--meaning DUALLY USCA/SV-can't make it plainer), was desirable, presumably, to me. I told you. That you disagree is immaterial.
Further, now that the topic has attracted the attention of miscreants on the butt of dogsport, I will leave the topic. If you or other rational individuals wish to discuss this further with me, you can do so via pm.
Adieu.
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