Titled or Not Titled? - Page 2

If I'm going to buy a dog or puppy I want to see the parents work (and see how they are not working, are they dogs I could live with), see how the siblings and progeny work and produce.  Titles aren't the end-all or be-all for me, but I also don't like excuses either.  I don't like someone telling me they have the highest drive national level dog but are just too busy to even pass a BH exam, or are breeding "top SchH prospects" but haven't titled but on HOT dog themselves.  I'd rather someone just be honest about their commitments.  Also for me a legit title tells me that trainer/handler has hands-on knowledge of the dog because they went through the process it takes to obtain that title, not that the title itself tells me much of anything about the dog.

So I will be the odd one and say FOR ME titles are important.  I want my females to have a working title before breeding and will only breed to a male who has a working title.  Is that all I look at?  of course not... but it is the "start".  

VKGSDs and GSD272,
My feelings exactly.  I personally wouldn't deal with a breeder that doesn't work and train their own dogs.  Contrary to popular myth, putting a SchH 1 on a dog is not that hard.  It takes time, commitment and effort.  It is harder to do than some other protection sports, but not really a huge thing.  If a breeder that breeds German style dogs doesn't even train or title I wouldn't give them a second thought.  Sending all of their dogs away for training is another big negative in my book.  I find it disgraceful when posters that buy titled dogs and show them at the Sieger Show just to breed and sell puppies, but never have put a BH on a dog.  Then represent themselves as top notch breeders because they bought a VA bitch or dog.  My favorite are the websites with "VA" puppies, spewing the virtues of titling dogs when they breed untitled and untested dogs.  But this breeding was done to test the "potency" of their young couch potato male that will never earn a title. 

Yes, titles are important to me when they are earned.  It is very important to me to deal with a breeder that invests the time and energy into their breeding to hold dogs back and HOT and compete with them.  If schH is not the sport or chosen activity, then work your dogs in some venue.  Running in circles does not make a working dog, and doesn't impress me unless other work is done with the dog. 

I agree with Duke and others; like some College Diplomas, some titles are not worth the paper they are written on.  But I can tell the difference from a quick conversation with the breeder or seeing the dog work and speaking to people that have worked the dog.  The best would be working the dog myself and watching the breeder handle the dog.  People who breed dogs really do not impress me, people who breed, raise, train and compete on a high level with dogs from their own breeding really impress me. 

It seems the ones that complain about titles, with the exception of a few posters simply do not work their dogs.  If you are not going to work your dog then you should complain about titles, if your dog doesn't pass OFA then complain about OFA.  Lot's and lot's of rationalization.   I never hear the breeders that actually train and tiltle their dogs complaining about the titles.  The breeders I respect love working their dogs and it is a passion for them. 

dont know where I will fall jim , I train and title my dogs , but couldnot care less about titles as far as breeding goes , for most people dont look any further than the written down title in the ad used to sell the dog or pups.
I breed with  titled dogs and in the same time I will use dogs without titles , in two weeks I have exam with two of my dogs , will their pups be any better after the trail , hell no , will they sell easyer , hell yes , so that is in the big picture all that it boils down to.

Titles would mean something if they had to be earned , and would not be given away or for sale  , and this is taking away the credibility of the good dogs and trainers that do train and title the good dogs and try to improve the breed instead of push pups and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If a person has money and buys titled stock to sell pups that doesnot make them a breeder and that doesnot make the pups worth anything more .

Duke,
I know you work your dogs.  I know that some titles are not earned, but I hope it is a small percentage of all the titles earned.  Titling does make a difference to your pups.  It shows you have put the effort in and have the knowledge and experience to assess your dogs strengths and weaknesses.  I'm sure it helps you choose breeding that you want to do based on your knowledge and experience.  I'm sure your pups benefit from your skill and commitment. 

Jim

It feels good to leave the field and earn the title, no matter how crappy the points are sometimes. It is the beauty of getting to know your dog and feel comfortable about picking the right mate.

Just the other day, somebody asked me if I would breed to an untitled female. I told them..show me what she's got and then ask me again!

They understood!

I agree GSDPACK, I can't say I don't like getting plaques and trophies and ribbons, but not to flaunt the title but because I am PROUD of my dogs and the work we have put in.  Why wouldn't I want to put that to the test and have the satisfaction of the judge and the crowd giving their nods of approval?  I'm not super competitive, I hate attention on myself, but if I think my dog is worthy of a title (or like some people insist he's *better* than the title or the titled dogs) then I dang well better put up or shut up!  My latest trial was a SchH1 and honestly the proudest thing for me was that there were no surprises.  We were not perfect but we easily got the title and took home some "High In..." awards yet what satisfied me the most was knowing that my dog performed exactly as I'd hoped and expected.  For me that is the greatest reflection on our hard work and training, no surprises under pressure on trial day.  I also work full time, own multiple dogs that I train and work, and have my share of bills and expenses but I don't think I'm too busy to do a few trials a year or that my dogs are just too good to earn the regular titles.  Also I see it as a reflection of the lines and the breeding program.  I am proud of my dogs and stand by my decisions as far as what dogs to purchase and train so I would like that to be reflected back to the breeder and the breeding program by earning the titles and awards they deserve.

The OP never mentioned anything about breeding or puppies or titled parents, so among all the canned responses, there was quite a diversion from answering the question that was actually asked.

Wanting to know what everyone thinks about non titled dogs? Because i know people who have dogs that are and some that are not,  The ones that are not work just as hard maybe even harder then the dogs with titles. And they have a V' in rating. or does titles just look good on paper? I have seen alot of dogs that were imported with Sch. Titles and they work like crap?
Thanks wanting to know what you thought?
Marow
 

I've imported more than a few titled dogs, and MOST worked like crap.  Whether they did or not was not an accurate reflection as to the quality of the dog, as much as the quality of the training.  I would much rather have an untitled dog of my own raising than a pre-titled import.

Actually Daryl, the mods pointed out that the OP is also Jordan Riley and you can see in his other threads how he feels about titles.  He is looking to breed.

Ok Daryl how old were the females when you purchased them, the title on them and were they breeding females and did they have any litters prior them coming to you?