Please enlighten me - Page 2

Moons,

Gotta love some of the young ones. DNR? What state are you in? And were you charged for stealing?

alboe,
DNR is for the most part a joke, but they have federal authority no matter where you live.
I'm in Indiana and the Hoosier National Forest.
No charges, accusation by the officer who was improperly trained, way too young, and packing a firearm.

Trappers are not popular around here, people are running their dogs this time of year.
A good trapper does not set traps close to homes or roads.

Blitzen,
They trap for the same reasons people hunt, even in 2011.
I just took issue with how they trapped this little Jack Russell, the dog is probably ok since I found him so fast, I don't think the owner took him to the vet.
The owner did not impress me either by how he keeps his two dogs.

As for shelters,
Yeah each is different, yet the basic principle is the same.
One I disagree with.


Moons.





 

Shelters and rescues are good and every level down from there to pretty bad.  That being said, it is better to give to a local outfit than to the HSUS where most of the money goes everywhere EXCEPT to shelters and the animals themselves.  Just do your research.  Ask questions.  Find out what is required to adopt or give up a dog or cat etc. 

Trapping is legal.  Trapping is typically done in fall and winter when the pelts are best.  Sets are made where the target animal is mostly likely to be trapped.  Since this is State Forest and hunting and trapping are both legal wisdom would be to have your dog under control at all times (leashed, fenced, under control etc.).  

Commend you for removing the JRT from the trap.. should have just left the trap sprung (with a note if you wanted to and called DNR to make sure the set was legally placed).  A sprung trap catches nothing until it is reset.  Trap would be checked once every 24 hours in most places by law (and if the trapper wants any sort of pelt). 

What I do wonder is why that JRT was loose running where it could get into a trap OR next to a road where it could get hit by a car OR near other people's  houses where it could get into garbage or other dogs.  The dog getting trapped was not the fault of the trapper (who sounds like he was engaged in a legally permitted activity) but the fault of the dumba$$ owner who allowed the dog to run at large....... unsupervised..... 

Just sayin'

Well, Petra, this is a two way street since the person that purchased this dog from a rescue organization had every intention of breeding her and is now criticizing the rescue organization because they did not spay the dog. It seems like you are criticizing yourself at the same time you criticize the rescue organization. If they would have spayed the dog, 2 puppies would not be alive. The rescue organization was very upfront and honest about this dog, however, the purchaser of the dog was NOT honest.  I can enlighten you with specifics if you would like.

Peter Hoss

Rass,
you don't live in the country do you.
People are running Coon Dogs and Beagles for Rabbit, and they don't like trappers.
Dogs run free here, you can't have protection from predators any other way.

Fur is not profitable these days, prices are crap so those who are trapping are doing it for other reasons.
It's all legal, some unethical.

If it were my dog in the trap we would not be discussing it at all, what happens next would remain a mystery.

Shelters,
pure emotion, not a cure for reality, and no responsibility to the animals.
Not humane in my opinion.

Moons.

I have pulled dogs out of a county shelter that does *not* spay/neuter dogs.  This place is like a glorified lean-to.  They have NO money.  There is NO vet on staff here.  The shelter manager, bless her heart, she lets me and a few others come out and pull dogs for rescues for no fee (she has some rescue's 503 papers or whatever it is on file).  People will come out there and admit they are adopting a dog so they can chain it to their front porch and guard their property. I met her out there on a Sunday because a man was coming back Monday to adopt a dog and said he was going to breed it.  She's not supposed to screen adopters like the fancy shelters and would get in trouble for denying adopters b/c the place is so strapped for cash.  Instead she gave us the opportunity to come out and pull the dog while the shelter was closed.  Obviously this is not ideal but I'm not going to blame shelters and rescues without knowing the situation.  We've saved some special dogs from this place and the manager does everything she can and more with what little resources are available.

Shelters.. as I said it depends.  Around here the canines are usually PBT and PBT mixes and the issue is cats cats cats...  but none of the shelters here would adopt out and unaltered adult dog or cat.. and most now do baby spayes and neuters because people do not follow through and the shelter does not have the staff to make sure kitten or puppy is altered at an appropriate age.  A few shelters still kill for space but not many.  Lots of fosters too. 

No reputable shelter I know of would adopt out a dog intending for that dog to be bred. 

Quite incorrect Moons. 
Former dairy farmer and currently live adjacent to a coon dog breeder (treeing Walkers) and State Forest.  Hounds were running just last week under the moon.  Hounds are run with GPS (which I find interesting). 

JRT's, the dog you found trapped, are not run on coon and beagles are run where there are rabbits.  Rabbits do not run where there are sets for raccoon/mink (maybe fox would interfere, but not so much).  No idea what the sets you saw were for (mink or raccoon or fox?) Watersets would not bother dogs ('rats and beaver).  Sets for coyote and Bobcat usually would not interfere with coon hounds or beagle. 

The JRT ws bred to ride with the huntsman to pull the fox from its den when gone to ground in a fox hunt.  Fox hunted for 3 years. 

Have trapped a bit.  Have hunted more (big game).  Fished even more.  Legally. 

Dogs that run free are often up for short lives (especially if they chase livestock).  Dog outside should be under control by fence, leash or voice command unless actively engaged in hunting.  Even then, the dog is supervised (no point in sitting in the house and letting the dog hunt alone.. LOL). 

I know dogs run free in a lot of places.. owners just open the door and let the dog out.  Just because it is done doesn't make it right (or legal in most places). 

Rass,
blood bait attracts anything that eats meat and many things simply curious.
Especially a quart dumped right out on the ground.
Scent travels long distances.

GPS is not that new, high priced dogs who get lost..lol
The trap was primarily I would assume for fox, but more than likely Coyote, and on down the list with blood bait.
You ever see a dog strangled in a snare?  Much less a Coyote?
It's not quick.

I trapped when I was younger, prices were higher.

Our dogs have always been free to run here, some get trained as mine do to stay in my territory, others grow wise.
Some die from cars and shooters.
I think it's a little more back woods perhaps than where you are.
We don't hunt fox on horse back..lol

Moons.

There are rescues run by people who have nothing but the interests of the animals at heart.  Then, there are large conglomerates of scammers who call themselves "protection" leagues, "humane" societies, etc., but truly are simply running a large-scale scam. While I feel for the people whose hearts are in the right place when it comes to rescue, and of course I sympathize with the poor animals, I can't help but see rescue as a huge factor enabling the indiscriminate breeding practices they claim to abhor. 

Many rescues are dog hoarders; they are "no kill" and full of misfit creatures who will never find a good home. They take a self-righteous approach that is self-serving (serving their agenda, not the animals' actual needs) and turn down many good homes, while accepting more and more dogs from irresponsible owners, puppymills, etc. 

I am all about helping animals. I do it all the time, on a personal scale. I used to foster, until I became so disillusioned as to the real motivation behind the practice. It's a real shame for the animals, but I honestly don't see how any rational, logical, clear-thinking person can NOT see that the more rescues that crop up, the more outlets that are created to take these mediocre or subpar animals that greed and ignorance create and the cycle continues. People now have a place to dump the puppy that they shouldn't have bought from a breeder who shouldn't have bred it. Then, they can get a new one 6 mos. later and not even feel guilty, because after all, it got a good home, right? I mean, they gave it to a rescue; they didn't just dump it on the street. <gag>

Personal responsibility is the only thing that will ever make a dent in the pet overpopulation problem. Not rescues, not spay/neuter, not legislation. 

So, what is the alternative to rescues?
Should all these "sub-par and mediocre" dogs in rescues be euthanised?
Who gets to decide what is "sub-par and mediocre"?
I think that, when it comes to dogs, to each their own.
There are many breeders on here that have produced dysplastic dogs.
To a lot of people that is sub-par. Shouldn't those dogs be put down? Or, at the very least, not bred?
It seems to me that any rational, logical, clear-thinking person should be able to see that rescues provide a choice for hundreds of thousands of people every year who choose to adopt an animal that is in a rescue, shelter, or pound as opposed to going to a breeder (any type of breeder, good, bad, or otherwise) and buying an animal. This alone helps keep down the number of cats and dogs being bred every year due to less demand. If we just kill all the animals in shelters, rescues and pounds wouldn't we see an increase in the numbers of mediocre and sub-par dogs being bred?

As for personal responsibility, you are 100% correct in theory, but, the problem is you are expecting this of humans.
Just as there are sub-par and mediocre dogs that shouldn't have been bred, so too are there many, many humans that shouldn't have been bred, and in turn, they themselves shouldn't be breeding, but, there is no way to stop that either. This leads to why spay-neuter does help lower the unwanted pet population. I'll use this little female Pit Bull that I just pulled from an extremely high-kill pound in Kentucky as an example. (When I say high-kill what I mean is that every Thursday whatever is at the pound in the morning and not spoken for by a rescue and picked up that day is put to sleep that afternoon. You could drop off your dog or cat Weds night and its dead Thurs afternoon. There are no happy dogs in cages. This pound is next to a rotten, old junkyard and it looks worse than the junkyard.) Jazzy is an absolute sweetheart of a dog and will make someone an excellent companion. She was this for her owner. I can tell by her demeanor. Here is where the problem comes in. Her owner dumped her at this pound because, "she may have gotten pregnant" and if so, he "can't take care of the puppies." Well, any idiot that looks at Jazzy can see that the last time she was in heat she also was pregnant and had a litter of pups. (God only knows where the pups ended up and how many more pups they will produce in the future.) So, from where I am sitting, had this guy spayed Jazzy, because clearly, in my opinion, he is of the sub-par and mediocre category of humans, she never would have gotten pregnant ever, he never would have had to worry about caring for any pups, and Jazzy would still be in his home and not at mine (or some other rescuer's house, or dead) and I wouldn't have to be paying to feed her, take the time to walk her, have to pay her medical expenses (I gave up a long time ago trying to get donations from people, it isn't worth the hassle, time, or effort) including by law at the very least, spay, rabies shot, and micro-chip, but also to treat an illness that she likely caught while at the pound and because of this I have to go to extreme measures to keep her from contaminating my dogs. Seems like spay-neuter can help!