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by Red Sable on 25 July 2011 - 18:07
I've never done it but I am not going to judge someone who has. I'm certainly not of the mindset they need to have a brain transplant.
Spaying and neutering should be cruel to you too Brittany, for it is unnecessary if you are a responsible pet owner.
Actually, getting a poor female pregnant and making her have puppies is cruel too and unnecessary. Definitely painful.
Spaying and neutering should be cruel to you too Brittany, for it is unnecessary if you are a responsible pet owner.
Actually, getting a poor female pregnant and making her have puppies is cruel too and unnecessary. Definitely painful.
by Brittany on 25 July 2011 - 20:07
sueincc, I believe in pet owner responsiblity. I only find spaying and neutering necessary if theirs medical concern, like cancer. Other than that what is the point of spying and neutering when you can take the responsible messurments by separating your animals when the bitches goes into heat. Having 4 unfixed German shepherds (2 males, yes they both live together) and 2 females (they also live together) I have not had any "oops" litters because I know how to read my bitches heat cycle. I know just the right time they go into estrus. Once this occures It's then time to put them into a different rooms in my small city sized house. I also know how to read my bitches body language, which is crucial for my decision to separate them.
Something to reconsider of http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf
On the positive side, neutering male dogs
On the negative side, neutering male dogs
On the negative side, spaying female dogs
Something to reconsider of http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf
On the positive side, neutering male dogs
- • eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
- • reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
- • reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
- • may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)
On the negative side, neutering male dogs
- • if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a
- common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
- • increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
- • triples the risk of hypothyroidism
- • increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
- • triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
- • quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
- • doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
- • increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
- • increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations
- • if done before 2.5 years of age, greatly reduces the risk of mammary tumors, the most common
- malignant tumors in female dogs
- • nearly eliminates the risk of pyometra, which otherwise would affect about 23% of intact female
- dogs; pyometra kills about 1% of intact female dogs
- • reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
- • removes the very small risk (0.5%) from uterine, cervical, and ovarian tumors
On the negative side, spaying female dogs
- • if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis
- • increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds
- • triples the risk of hypothyroidism
- • increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
- • causes urinary “spay incontinence” in 4-20% of female dogs
- • increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4
- • increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs spayed before puberty
- • doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract tumors
- • increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
by Brittany on 25 July 2011 - 20:07
10. • increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations
My question for you sueincc, since you want to bring this spaying and neutering debate into this thread. What do you feel about spaying and neutering of humans? Do you think that people who are carriers of certain cancers, like ovarian cancer or even arthritis should be given the right to breed, and reproduce geneitcally sick people? No I'm not being smart or acting like a Nazi. If we want to practice eugentics on our dogs, shouldn't we do it to our own spieces? After all people are dying every day from genetic flaws like genetic heart disease. Try visiting your local cemetries, and visit the baby land. You wonder just how'd these babies died, and what was the root behind it. Healthy babies don't die on the same day that they were born.
My question for you sueincc, since you want to bring this spaying and neutering debate into this thread. What do you feel about spaying and neutering of humans? Do you think that people who are carriers of certain cancers, like ovarian cancer or even arthritis should be given the right to breed, and reproduce geneitcally sick people? No I'm not being smart or acting like a Nazi. If we want to practice eugentics on our dogs, shouldn't we do it to our own spieces? After all people are dying every day from genetic flaws like genetic heart disease. Try visiting your local cemetries, and visit the baby land. You wonder just how'd these babies died, and what was the root behind it. Healthy babies don't die on the same day that they were born.
by sueincc on 25 July 2011 - 20:07
Calm down, Brittney, I never said whether or not I neuter or spay my dogs. I simply asked you if you think spaying and neutering dogs is inhumane.
We don't live in a perfect world, and while it would be really great if everybody were able to keep an intact dog and keep it from breeding, or if people who wanted simply a pet didn't mind having to deal with a bitch who comes into season twice a year, or if everyone was able to train every neurotic dog out there not to bark every time a leaf falls from a tree, but that's not the real world Brittney, whether YOU like it or not, so people alter their animals and it's neither cruel or inhumane. It allows them to keep pets, and they love their pets JUST as much as you love yours.
For the record, I don't alter my animals, in any fashion, because I don't need to, but at the same time, I sure as HELL don't pass judgment on those who do, or consider them unfit to have pets just because they alter their animals.
I have no idea why you would bring up the subject of altering humans, Brittney, that's completely irrelevant, except to those loony tunes A/R freaks, and there's no reasoning with them. You know why? Because dogs are not the same as humans. Dogs aren't children, they aren't furbabies, they are dogs. You may wish to consider dogs better, or equal to people, but you cannot expect society to feel the same way about animals that you do. Frankly sweetie, you need to check yourself, because you have gotten more than a little carried away on this, your last paragraph is beyond unreasonable, you entered into the land of completely wacked.
We don't live in a perfect world, and while it would be really great if everybody were able to keep an intact dog and keep it from breeding, or if people who wanted simply a pet didn't mind having to deal with a bitch who comes into season twice a year, or if everyone was able to train every neurotic dog out there not to bark every time a leaf falls from a tree, but that's not the real world Brittney, whether YOU like it or not, so people alter their animals and it's neither cruel or inhumane. It allows them to keep pets, and they love their pets JUST as much as you love yours.
For the record, I don't alter my animals, in any fashion, because I don't need to, but at the same time, I sure as HELL don't pass judgment on those who do, or consider them unfit to have pets just because they alter their animals.
I have no idea why you would bring up the subject of altering humans, Brittney, that's completely irrelevant, except to those loony tunes A/R freaks, and there's no reasoning with them. You know why? Because dogs are not the same as humans. Dogs aren't children, they aren't furbabies, they are dogs. You may wish to consider dogs better, or equal to people, but you cannot expect society to feel the same way about animals that you do. Frankly sweetie, you need to check yourself, because you have gotten more than a little carried away on this, your last paragraph is beyond unreasonable, you entered into the land of completely wacked.
by oso on 25 July 2011 - 21:07
Going back to de-barking, it is not something I have ever or would ever consider, in my experience GSDs are not usually a problem, and we want them to bark don't we, in Schutzhund, and just to let us know if someone is coming? But they do not tend to bark non-stop, the only time I have had problems is if a strange female comes for breeding, alone at night in unfamiliar surroundings they sometimes bark and bark, but in general my dogs are quiet most of the time. I believe though that yorkshire terriers are terrible yappers and they often just go on and on and on, I have seen this visiting someone´house who had just three of them....so I can appreciate there may be problems with neighbours and maybe de-barking could be a possible solution, I don´t know much about the operation but it probably is not cruel, I might find listening to a hoarse dog even more irritating though???
by Brittany on 25 July 2011 - 22:07
sueincc, I am calm. I just find it very frustrating to see that people here who are suppose to be animal lovers find debarking not to be cruel and inhumane, and is actually ok with this painful procedure.
Believe me I know we don't live in a perfect world. I figured this one out a long time ago. If people aren't able to care for a bitch then get a male, they don't have cycles.
If these neuter/spay nazi are going to pass judgment on me for "not being responsible" for not neutering and spaying my pets then I believe I have the right to return that judgment that they passed on to me.
As far as dogs not being children. Since we live in the world where people are free to spay and neuter their pets people also have the freedom to treat their animals as if they were their furbabies. Mother nature seems to work like this. Wether or not you want to like it or not many dog owners do treat their dogs as if they were their children. True animal lovers who owns dogs would NEVER view their animals as if they were objects, or money producers. They wouldn't go around saying "Their just dogs". For many people they're not just some dogs, They are their long life partners for many people like police officers, Search and rescue, service work,etc.
I simply asked you what your opinions on altering humans because you derailed this thread (I am guilty too) by asking me about spaying and neutering (had nothing to do with De-barking) so I thought I'd ask you your opinion regarding to altering humans who are genetically sick, and are contributing to this sick society with their offspring. No I'm not going to check myself. As far as my entering into the land of "whacked" I call it reality. Our species are becoming sick by each generation. Why do you think the medical community is a billion dollar business? Especially cancer facialities. I'm sure theirs a cure for cancer, but why cure it when you can profit from it.
Believe me I know we don't live in a perfect world. I figured this one out a long time ago. If people aren't able to care for a bitch then get a male, they don't have cycles.
If these neuter/spay nazi are going to pass judgment on me for "not being responsible" for not neutering and spaying my pets then I believe I have the right to return that judgment that they passed on to me.
As far as dogs not being children. Since we live in the world where people are free to spay and neuter their pets people also have the freedom to treat their animals as if they were their furbabies. Mother nature seems to work like this. Wether or not you want to like it or not many dog owners do treat their dogs as if they were their children. True animal lovers who owns dogs would NEVER view their animals as if they were objects, or money producers. They wouldn't go around saying "Their just dogs". For many people they're not just some dogs, They are their long life partners for many people like police officers, Search and rescue, service work,etc.
I simply asked you what your opinions on altering humans because you derailed this thread (I am guilty too) by asking me about spaying and neutering (had nothing to do with De-barking) so I thought I'd ask you your opinion regarding to altering humans who are genetically sick, and are contributing to this sick society with their offspring. No I'm not going to check myself. As far as my entering into the land of "whacked" I call it reality. Our species are becoming sick by each generation. Why do you think the medical community is a billion dollar business? Especially cancer facialities. I'm sure theirs a cure for cancer, but why cure it when you can profit from it.
by Judy P on 25 July 2011 - 22:07
In the past I showed and bred Miniature Pinschers and yes I had a few who were debarked. When done by a well trained vet I have never noticed any pain reaction from them. To be successful you have to keep the dogs calm and quiet for about a week afterwards. I only ever did the dogs who were problem barkers and once they were no longer adding fuel to the fire everyone else quieted down. I had people come to visit and they asked me what kind of bird I had - I didn't have a bird, it was the mouthiest Min Pin in the world but she sounded like a bird, just a little chirp.
by Beardog on 25 July 2011 - 23:07
I used to have 4 De-barkers- I only used them to remove bark from logs before the logs went through the mill's headrigs. Had I only known I could have debarked Yorkies--LMAO
by sueincc on 25 July 2011 - 23:07
Exactly Judy. Min Pins, huh? I don't blame you! I had a friend who had a very cheeky Min Pin, not only a non-stop barker, he had one of those high pitched barks that left your ears ringing! I sure was glad when she got that dog debarked. Dog didn't miss a beat, right back in action, but with a lovely raspy voice....at least lovely compared to what it use to be!!!!!
Brittney you're so overwrought you're not even making any sense and are going off on ridiculous tangents. Unless you can calm down and discuss this like a normal adult, I see no point in discussing this issue with you any further.
by Brittany on 25 July 2011 - 23:07
sueincc, and you're not being open minded so yeah lets not discuss this any further because I don't see a point of debating with you any further.
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