. . . and what of the WHITE GSD? - Page 2

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by NigerDeltaMann on 02 July 2011 - 16:07

hexe, i agree with u on your second post, but also disagree with Rik on his or her followf-up second post. Now, let me come. D whole thing's like politics; if d white gsd follower muster enough groups in their numbers, this whole genetic freak as the SV so think will be accepted. Check this out; two coffee-coloured thorough bred horses mated and produce a white calf (or what's it call) and some "anti mandelian lawyer" say the white calf is a mule. Reconsile this scenario. To a physically blind person, the gsd is gsd, is gsd not colour contraption. ,

Kaffirdog

by Kaffirdog on 02 July 2011 - 17:07

White GSDs are not albinos, in fact they are not really white, they just have a masking gene that hides the colour.  Genetically, they can be any colour, even black!  I don't claim to know much about whites as they have never appealed to me, but I have never heard of any health issue related to the masking gene and that is the only difference between them and a normal coloured GSD.

Margaret N-J

starrchar

by starrchar on 02 July 2011 - 19:07

The recessive white gene has been a part of the GSD from the VERY beginning of the breed. At one time it was thought that the white GSDs carried more health issues, but it has been proven by geneticists to be untrue. White GSds have normal pigment, but albinos do not. Yes, albinos do typically  have more health issues.   Below is an article I copied and pasted on another thread. I am not a fancier of the white GSD, but it is a shame when false information is continually put out there. It happened a lot with the LSC too...until  the SV decided to reverse the ban on them.  

The color "white" can be traced back to the roots of the German Shepherd Dog. Information provided in early books on the German Shepherd Dog, such as "The Alsatian WoIf Dog" written by George Horowitz in 1923, as well as "The German Shepherd, Its History, Development and Genetics" written by M. B. Willis in 1977, make mention of white German Shepherd shown in Europe as early as 1882. "Der Deutsche Schaferhund In Wart Und Bild" written by Rittmeister Max von Stephanitz, the architect of the German Shepherd breed, in 1921 included a photo of a white German Shepherd directly descended from Horand (mentioned later herein), and "The Complete German Shepherd" published by Milo Denlinger in 1947, included an illustration of a white German Shepherd from Northern Germany.

It is a historical fact that a white dog was the grandsire of Horand von Grafrath born in 1895, the dog who was acknowledged as the foundation dog of contemporary German Shepherd Dog bloodlines. From that time forward, the color white was part of the genetic pool within the color variations of the German Shepherd Dog.

In the United States, the white German Shepherd appears throughout the history of the breed. In the early 1920's Ann Tracy (who owned one of the first two German Shepherd champions on record in America). Imported some of the finest German show stock to this country and white puppies showed up immediately in her litters. In 1917, the first white German Shepherds were registered with the American Kennel Club from Ann Tracy's kennels. In the 1920's, H. N. Hanchett of Minnesota imported German-bred white German Shepherds to the United States. Early top German lines, such as V. Oeringen were recognized as an excellent source for white German Shepherds. The Strongheart, Rin-Tin-Tin and Longworth bloodlines frequently produced white dogs.

THE CONTROVERSY

It was not until the 1930's. after the death of Max von Stephanitz, that white dogs were discriminated against. The discrimination increased with the rise of Hitler. During the 1960's, with the white German Shepherd becoming ever more popular, friction developed between breeders of the white German Shepherd and the standard colored German Shepherd. Genetic problems appearing in the German Shepherd Dog were increasingly blamed on the white German Shepherd, and Germany began a campaign to outlaw the white color. One charge against the white German Shepherd was that the color white was responsible for "fading color" or "washing out" of the darker dog's color. This point has been refuted innumerable times by leading breeders and geneticists. However, in 1968, following Germany's lead, the white German Shepherd was disqualified from the conformation show ring in America when AKC accepted the change in the breed standard from the German Shepherd Dog Club of America listing white as a disqualifying fault. To its credit, the AKC has not bowed to demands that it cease registering the white dog.


by hexe on 03 July 2011 - 02:07

"bull shi*. dispite all apperances, you have no clue what you are saying. name one."

Gee, Rik. What crawled up *your* shorts and bit your nuts?

Name one? No, sorry, not going to waste my time delving through pedigrees for you--especially when I didn't say it HAD happened, I said it COULD happen, based on genetics, and even allowed that the odds were low.  I will, however, provide you with some reference material regarding the recessive genetics responsible for the white coat in German Shepherd Dogs:

http://www.wsgenetics.org/coat_color.htm

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/98/5/544.full


Additionally, it would be difficult to identify which dogs may be carrying the recessive for white, since there will not be ANY record of the birth of a white pup in an SV-registered litter in recent memory--the pup would either not live to see the breed warden, or at the very least would never be acknowledged in any official documentation.  If one was so inclined, one could probably spend hours reviewing the pedigrees of white GSDs in the US and figure out which European lines were carrying the recessive, but the subject doesn't interest me enough to be bothered.  I'm satisfied knowing how recessives work when it comes to genetics, and that the white in the GSD is not associated with the gene for albinism in any way.

Ryanhaus

by Ryanhaus on 03 July 2011 - 02:07


by hexe on 03 July 2011 - 03:07

Good heavens, what an unattractive drawing to use as an illustration for the UKC breed standard! Or have I just become spoiled by Linda Shaw's excellent work?

TingiesandTails

by TingiesandTails on 03 July 2011 - 04:07

I grew up in Germany and lived there for 35 years and have never seen a white German Shepherd there, despite working at a vet hospital and being active in dog sport. The white shepherd is NOT a German Shepherd. It is a North American breeding and is also called "Canadian Shepherd" in Germany.

starrchar

by starrchar on 03 July 2011 - 04:07

[QUOTE]I grew up in Germany and lived there for 35 years and have never seen a white German Shepherd there, despite working at a vet hospital and being active in dog sport. The white shepherd is NOT a German Shepherd. It is a North American breeding and is also called "Canadian Shepherd" in Germany.[QUOTE]
That's because probably in Germany they are all still culled!!!

vonissk

by vonissk on 03 July 2011 - 04:07

Speaking of UKC and the white dogs--I have never seen a place where a dog could be registered as one or the other and be shown in one ring or the other. If they are whites then they oughta be registered as White Shepherds or whatever they are called instead of having the choice of being registered as whites or german shepherds and having the choice as to what they want to be shown as. JMO............

Abby Normal

by Abby Normal on 03 July 2011 - 07:07

Tinglesandtails

The white shepherd is NOT a German Shepherd. It is a North American breeding and is also called "Canadian Shepherd" in Germany.

Starrchar's post includes excellent historical information. How can you flatly deny history and say it's a North American breeding? 

Of course a white German Shepherd IS a German Shepherd and appeared very early in the breed in Germany. It is just not an accepted colour in the standard.





 


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