HIP XRAYS- opinions, please! - Page 2

 Yikes, I think "bad in each and every way possible" is a bit much.

I completely agree w/Molly on the positioning. Yes, she's straight, but those knees are over-flexed for sure, and the pelvis is slightly tilted, and if I undo those things mentally, I see hips that very well may pass as fair. 

If I said this was an out of shape showline near her heat cycle would it change any of your opinions?

My recommendation was that if they are not happy w/the rating, to have them redone by a different vet (mine), when she's in good shape, after swimming, etc. in the summer, nowhere near her heat cycle and submit to SV. Lord knows, OFA won't change a rating for the good regardless of what they say. I've seen too many examples of the politics at work there to tell them to bother.

 For you, Duke and Melba. These, to me, embody "bad in each and every way possible" much more than the ones I just posted. 

LOL Jenn,

Yes, those are definately worse and I have seen worse then that, unfortunately. BUT I think that given 2 years the hips that you posted will get worse. This is something we can't predict without xraying at lets say 12 months, 2 years, 5 years so on and so forth to find hips that do not degenerate. The hips that stay good, with very little degeneration over the years are truely good hips. The ones that degenerate, an no one knows this because WHO xrays like that, are no good. This is why it is so difficult to weed out the good from the bad.

JMO

Melissa

jenni , forget about positioning , forget heat , showline and every other excuse in the world , they are bad in every way possible , my english in medical terms is not up to date but ill give it a try
in europe hips are evaluated on three points
first , depth of the socket==definately not good on this dog
second , how the hipbone fits the socket ==definately not good on this dog
third deforming on the hipbone ==already happening big time on this dog
the end of the hipbones should be like a ball , these are already filled up and look like squares

I cant make it any better than it is

if your breeding , the first person you got to be honest to is yourself

by the way , what did OFA say

 Duke, I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you say your English is not that good, so possibly you misunderstood my post. I think we have a language barrier/misunderstanding here, and I don't think you meant to be offensive, but I will be honest and say I resent that comment and insinuation very much. 

If you knew the very first thing about how I breed you would not have posted as you did, "if you're breeding the first person you've got to be honest with is yourself."  As stated in my initial post THIS DOG BELONGS TO A FRIEND OF A FRIEND. I DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW OLD SHE ISFOR SURE, but I am almost positive she is 3.  Never met her, probably never will. So, moving on, lol..............................

I thought I would post these to show different evaluationsfrom knowledgeable people in an effort to help my friend (and others) understand a bit more about hip ratings than I can explain quickly via email or on the phone. Many people find these threads very informative. 

So, my personal feelings about these hips are as follows (extra detailed because people are trying to learn!) :

I will respectfully disagree w/whoever said that these hips are just going to get worse. I could be wrong, but I know of no way to do anything but theorize about the future;-) My reasoning is this: the dog is already 3. She has NO DJD noted on the OFA report. In my experience and from what I have studied, degenerative changes take place very rapidly in dysplasia. I had a dog w/an injury once who showed clear degenerative changes at 4 MONTHS. Another showed slight arthritis at under 2 in a subluxated hip, and yet another I know showed subluxation at 2 only to be tight as can be at 7. So, in my opinion, I would not write this dog off as "bad in each and every way" due to these factors:

1) age-I think they should be worse by 3 if the dog is truly dysplastic

2) season in which films were taken-totally out of shape after a hard, cold, icy winter in Chicago

3) proximity to heat cycle (unknown- I'm just throwing this out there for educational/debate purposes)

4) over-flexing of knees, slightly "overdone" positioning, too far pulled in

5) NO ARTHRITIS

6) slightly tilted pelvis

Does this dog have great hips? Nope. But I don't think she has horrible hips, either, and I think that they are "not bad" enough that *perhaps* perfect positioning and seeing them from the proper angle could make a difference. I do not see "squares" at all. If the dog was 5 mo. old I would be more concerned.

OFA said mild, w/subluxation. 

 Oh, and I forgot to thank everyone who posted w/their opinions. People don't always post but there are many who appreciate people taking the time to respond so they can learn. 

Thanks! I'll update if I hear anything else about the dog.

Fair to mildly dysplastic;  I would like to see the socket's deeper with the head seated in deeper. 

Sorry I did not know there were two different sets to evaluate;  My opinion above is referring to the first set of x-rays;  the 3 year old friend of a friend bitch.

The second set of x-rays:  severe remodeling on the right side of the screen; probably the left hip and both have very shallow sockets.  I would says moderately dysplastic.  Possibly severe dysplasia.  Sorry for that.  Nan

Duke--were you talking about the first x-ray posted or the second?

In the first x-ray, I look at the massive amount of thigh muscle on the dog--I doubt that dog will have any problems  with her hips in the first 10 years of her life. In the 2nd x-ray, you can see the thigh muscles are already atrophying--is that film of a GSD? If it were a mastiff... *maybe*??? I could see FAIR, as a relative ranking. You did say that 2nd set of films got rated Fair?