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by Gustav on 27 September 2012 - 20:09
First, you would have to believe that Sch measures working ability. Sch is a sport and is based on competitiveness. Police certification is a requirement to do police work and is based on end results. The grading of the execution of the exercise determines results in Sch.....the completion of the task determines the passing of dog to receive certification. The goal of one is to compete, the goal of the other is to work.....the individual dogs in either organization doesn't change these realities.
by cphudson on 28 September 2012 - 23:09
Our current young male brothers we held back to work & titled were needed by other agencies through our donation program.
One is sonn to be a guide dog & will be collected before he is neutered then placed with his new owner / handler. His brother
He was previously being prepared for IPO titles. But has transfer beautifully into his guide dog role.
Broc - http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=718350
His brother was also being prepared for top levels of IPO, but is now going to become a new addition to the NJ Police department.
We will also have him collected & store for future use. Also offer to limited outside breedings through AI.
Both brothers we retain their registration papers & the collections are owned by use, while the dogs are out performing their jobs.
We have already had their hips & elbows prelimb & will do DM test before they leave us.
Once working in their jobs they will not be allowed to be bred. But in this way we can still preserve the working qualities within this litter.
One is sonn to be a guide dog & will be collected before he is neutered then placed with his new owner / handler. His brother
He was previously being prepared for IPO titles. But has transfer beautifully into his guide dog role.
Broc - http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=718350
His brother was also being prepared for top levels of IPO, but is now going to become a new addition to the NJ Police department.
We will also have him collected & store for future use. Also offer to limited outside breedings through AI.
Both brothers we retain their registration papers & the collections are owned by use, while the dogs are out performing their jobs.
We have already had their hips & elbows prelimb & will do DM test before they leave us.
Once working in their jobs they will not be allowed to be bred. But in this way we can still preserve the working qualities within this litter.
by 3crzygsds on 09 October 2012 - 21:10
Funny my partner and I were wondering the same thing.
We see a breeder advertising her "Narcotics Dog" and it lives with her and she is not in police work nor is her husband.
I guess you can post anything on your website does not mean its true!
Carolyn & Mark
by Hundmutter on 10 October 2012 - 08:10
We-e-e-ll, that doesn't have to mean the dog has never done a Narcotics Detection course;
my mentor's middle-aged house bitch had done an Explosives course - as a civilian dog &
owner - and at 9 or 10 years old would still very occasionally lie down by cars parked along the
street, out of the blue, indicating she smelled something.
my mentor's middle-aged house bitch had done an Explosives course - as a civilian dog &
owner - and at 9 or 10 years old would still very occasionally lie down by cars parked along the
street, out of the blue, indicating she smelled something.
by 3crzygsds on 10 October 2012 - 15:10
Hundmutter you are 100% correct.
However if a breeder is stating the dog is "Certified & Active" one might believe it was working in LE.
Can only hope potential puppy buyers do their home work...and as SCHBabe asked how would you know is a good question? Sadly many breeders make claims that may not be true.
C
by Slamdunc on 10 October 2012 - 18:10
Having a retired formerly active "police k-9" is one thing, it certainly doesn't automatically make the dog breed worthy or even desirable.
Advertising a dog that has possibly passed a "certification" and never actually worked the street is a completely different story. Any dog that can pass a Schh 1 or IPO 1 can be trained to pass a certification routine. The NAPWDA or USPCA certification is a basic test and passing that does not tell me that a dog is a competent Patrol dog. If this dog is owned and handled by a civilian and not actively working the dog on the street, the certification holds as much weight to me as a SchH 1 title.
Anyone with access to detection training aids or pseudo, like Narcotics or explosives can teach a dog detection work. Again a civilian with a dog that is "Narcotics certified" means some training was put into the dog. This is really no different than the AKC scent sport teaching the dog to alert to eucalyptus or what every scents they are using.
A breeder advertising a "Narcotics certified" or "Patrol certified" dog would raise big red flags in my mind. There are people who post on the forum that talk about their "Patrol" dogs that they have raised and trained. IMO, if you aren't working the dog on the street on a daily basis it is not a "Patrol Dog." If you aren't out running your "Narcotics Dog" on vehicles, hotels, residences and being used for Probable Cause in vehicle searches and Search Warrants then you don't have a "Narcotics K-9."
In our unit, we do not considered our "certified Patrol Dogs" proven until they have at least a year on the street and many finds and several apprehensions. I have a guy that just completed his 5 month Patrol school hitting the street Saturday night with me. Now, his training will really begin and I will be "shadowing him" at work for the first month or so. I will let him use his dog on tracks and building searches, backing him up and watching his dog perform.
Perhaps in other areas of the country things are different, but I do not know of any PD's in metropolitan areas that would call a civilian dog handler out for a call. Maybe for a missing person, but felony tracks are way too dangerous. Narcotics searches would also be out because the handler and dog would need to be called to court to testify. There are several Supreme Court cases on the reliability of Narcotics K-9's right now to utilize civilian handlers and their dogs for searches.
Buyer beware, check the breeder out and watch out for the red flags.
Edited to add:
I applaud breeders that breed dogs that have the strength, nerve and working ability to be Patrol dogs, active SAR or service dogs. Breeders like the one I got Boomer from are the keys to maintaining working line GSD's. There are many breeders that consistently produce dogs that are top sport dogs, Patrol Dogs, SAR and service dogs. For those that want working line dogs, search these breeders out and support them. You may see them talk about dogs that they have produced that are currently working K-9's but I doubt you will see them talk about their "certified" Police dog.
Advertising a dog that has possibly passed a "certification" and never actually worked the street is a completely different story. Any dog that can pass a Schh 1 or IPO 1 can be trained to pass a certification routine. The NAPWDA or USPCA certification is a basic test and passing that does not tell me that a dog is a competent Patrol dog. If this dog is owned and handled by a civilian and not actively working the dog on the street, the certification holds as much weight to me as a SchH 1 title.
Anyone with access to detection training aids or pseudo, like Narcotics or explosives can teach a dog detection work. Again a civilian with a dog that is "Narcotics certified" means some training was put into the dog. This is really no different than the AKC scent sport teaching the dog to alert to eucalyptus or what every scents they are using.
A breeder advertising a "Narcotics certified" or "Patrol certified" dog would raise big red flags in my mind. There are people who post on the forum that talk about their "Patrol" dogs that they have raised and trained. IMO, if you aren't working the dog on the street on a daily basis it is not a "Patrol Dog." If you aren't out running your "Narcotics Dog" on vehicles, hotels, residences and being used for Probable Cause in vehicle searches and Search Warrants then you don't have a "Narcotics K-9."
In our unit, we do not considered our "certified Patrol Dogs" proven until they have at least a year on the street and many finds and several apprehensions. I have a guy that just completed his 5 month Patrol school hitting the street Saturday night with me. Now, his training will really begin and I will be "shadowing him" at work for the first month or so. I will let him use his dog on tracks and building searches, backing him up and watching his dog perform.
Perhaps in other areas of the country things are different, but I do not know of any PD's in metropolitan areas that would call a civilian dog handler out for a call. Maybe for a missing person, but felony tracks are way too dangerous. Narcotics searches would also be out because the handler and dog would need to be called to court to testify. There are several Supreme Court cases on the reliability of Narcotics K-9's right now to utilize civilian handlers and their dogs for searches.
Buyer beware, check the breeder out and watch out for the red flags.
Edited to add:
I applaud breeders that breed dogs that have the strength, nerve and working ability to be Patrol dogs, active SAR or service dogs. Breeders like the one I got Boomer from are the keys to maintaining working line GSD's. There are many breeders that consistently produce dogs that are top sport dogs, Patrol Dogs, SAR and service dogs. For those that want working line dogs, search these breeders out and support them. You may see them talk about dogs that they have produced that are currently working K-9's but I doubt you will see them talk about their "certified" Police dog.
by Pirates Lair on 10 October 2012 - 22:10
"You may see them talk about dogs that they have produced that are currently working K-9's but I doubt you will see them talk about their "certified" Police dog."
Excellent post Jim!
The pup in this video has had a great deal of foundation work put in to him which will prepare him for his eventual Police Dog Certification.
We don’t have any Certified Police dogs, but we do provide Police dog candidates which have demonstrated to us that they have the potential to work the streets provided that the foundation work is continued by a competent trainer.
Being a world class Police K9 does not automatically grant status as a Stud dog, to think otherwise is foolish. Kim
Excellent post Jim!
The pup in this video has had a great deal of foundation work put in to him which will prepare him for his eventual Police Dog Certification.
We don’t have any Certified Police dogs, but we do provide Police dog candidates which have demonstrated to us that they have the potential to work the streets provided that the foundation work is continued by a competent trainer.
Being a world class Police K9 does not automatically grant status as a Stud dog, to think otherwise is foolish. Kim
by Slamdunc on 11 October 2012 - 00:10
Kim, super nice pup! Great video!
by Pirates Lair on 11 October 2012 - 00:10
Thanks Jim
Kim
Kim
by Pirates Lair on 11 October 2012 - 02:10
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