What do we miss about the older bloodlines? - Page 12

Recognizing and training good aggression ( except for LE/military) work, is something like this topic. Many speaking on it are speculating or talking from a perspective of totally different type training. It sounds good ....just like the reasoning that those dogs on podium are best dogs because they are on podium, it sounds good.

See...I don't think aggression is hard to recognize. Aggression in the right circumstance such as during guarding or even when the dog is on the sleeve and trying to stop the helper. But I'm wondering specifically about social aggression. I know quite a few dogs which are plenty aggressive on the field and when the time calls for it...but are extremely social dogs and would go there unless the circumstance calls for it.

BW
I like a dog that is quite manly and
Who does not allow anyone to just encroach on the him/her in any sense at all.

Your like of that type of dog doesn’t make it the breed standard or the proper temperament for the breed. In the same way that you want a dog that can’t be looked at without an aggressive reaction is incorrect, a dog with absolutely zero aggression is also incorrect. I also don’t quite care about the type of dog you like or your ability to understand where the aggression you like to talk about comes from.

The thread is about “missing things from older bloodlines.” The things you value AREN’T gone from today’s bloodlines and WEREN’T that prominent in old bloodlines. The dogs you read about were particular dogs who were more aggressive and you’ve found the people that owned them to talk about them. They weren’t major dogs, they weren’t extremely successful dogs, they were just dogs that showed more aggression than their counterparts. We can find the same thing today, genetically and also trained for. What you’re seeing on this forum is just a lack of people with such dogs, or people that aren’t willing to speak about their dogs like that. The traits you keep harping about were not that prominent, nor important, 20-40 years ago. Like I said earlier, strong dogs from back then were generally out of control by today’s standards and even the best of training methods back then could only get them to that point, but teams could still score high showing the way they did. Today’s methods are different…for better or worse, and there are plenty of strong dogs that are just trained differently so they are able to perform more under control. Back then, those strong dogs, lacking control, could still make it to higher levels and show…today they can’t unless they’re in the hands of a very very good trainer and so they’re just not known or remembered.

There are a handful of dogs at my club that I work on a weekly basis that are overly socially aggressive. What most people call HUMAN AGGRESSIVE and don’t PC it by calling it social aggression. The dogs aren’t trainable to the point they’d need to be for higher level trialing. Could they get their Schutzhund titles? Absolutely. Will they do it anywhere but their own club? Not in a million years. You want that type of dog? Go to any club in this country and they’ll be there. Get a puppy from it because plenty are breeding them.

Dogs aren't supposed to be 'manly'. They're supposed to be dogly.

It's never a good idea when someone feels the need for their dog to be representative for who the person wants to be or believes themselves to be. A dog is a dog, not an extension of oneself--expecting them to be the latter is what creates problems for both the individual animal as well as their breed as a whole.

Nobody of the experts /trainers can show me a good example GSD of social agression in real live scenario??? I read some people have them in their kennels let us show that dogs....

It really doesn’t matter…mithuna is stuck on a forum where a bunch of people like to reminisce about their “bad ass” dogs from back in the day. If they had all these aggressive dogs, then where did they all go? If all the dogs were like that…what happened? Why were all these people that were involved in the breed not able to save the aggressive dog and keep it in the breed?

Schutzhund/IPO is full of jealousy. “I made it to the world championship 30 years ago with my BA dog, and now all they have is these biddable prey pansy dogs and so I can’t compete because my dog is such a BA that he can’t be trained to score those points.” No one wants to give respect to the trainer or the dog, easier to bash the dog than to admit that they don’t have the ability to train to that level anymore. Also very easy to convince people like Mithuna who will never actually head out to a club or train their dog or learn something about the sport/training through practical experience about how great they are and how their way is the right way. It’s also something that gives approval to the way that his personal dog acts which is opposite of what he’s gotten from others. Approval/confirmation of our own thoughts generally leads us to accept those people as smarter/more credible than those telling us we’re wrong.

BW Before Susie and Hund get going with their 5 times .

Lets try ssomething meta cognitive.  Lift the model of the argument  from your last post and place it upon yourself and the people who you talk to and who validate what you want to beleive as well . And there you have it..... two types of dog lovers with different tastes.

I don't need to validate anything, breed standards in every country validate what I believe. You need validation from random people because your version of the GSD is the outskirt GSD, it's not to standard, and it was never to standard. When you make posts like the original post you're implying that GSD's back in the day (and not even that long ago) were much more aggressive and not personable at all. This is very far from the truth as there are plenty of people that owned GSDs way before you and I were born who will tell you quite the opposite. GSDs wouldn't have been service dogs or even military dogs if all they did was light up on anyone and everyone that looked at them. What I'm trying to explain to you is that the idea of the GSD that you want to believe...is one that is very far from the truth. Sure, some of them existed, just as they do now, but they were never the majority of the breed. Enjoy your dog though, and any future dog you have. They'll never amount to much anyways and it's not like any of them will make any kind of impact on the breed. Doubtful that you'll ever be able to make a big enough splash training any dog that you do purchase that would impress anyone enough to breed to it. But more than likely you'll just breed any future male you purchase to your current female.

Hexe, as usual....  

Mithuna, you're not into pit bulls by any chance, are you?