Chewey on sleeve - Page 2

I wanna see that.

I am not looking to keep him totally in prey. I am however looking to limit his motion and encourage the pull back which is why I said I will try the back tie working the prong separate or table. Table is not a crazy amount of pressure and this dog lights up with just the appearance of a : harness, helper. blind or the crack of a whip. While on the tailgate of my truck before bite work he will do anything to jump on field if he knows it is game on....so yes I could see prey happening with him while on a table depending on helper and stim. I don't remember saying I wanted to keep him in prey...just that I didn't think he was ready for a tremendous amount of pressure. All in the presentation. If at 18 months the dog will not bite a sleeve with the right helper on a table...he may want to consider a different sport. I like to keep stims to a minimum if not needed (genetics) but one crack of a whip will light him up...

Not unusual to hear a dog start in prey and drop into defense on a table (when done right). Keep in mind my goal is primarily not to get defense (although it would be nice) it is simply to stop cheweyness (still not sure if a word) and limit motion.

This is a fun (goofy at times) sport dog and I am a simple club guy with no aspirations of setting the schutzhund world on fire. The goal is to consistently learn and improve (dogs and me) without harming, confusing or creating bad habits. Find want works, if not move on, accept it and focus on strengths.

If my only worry with this dorky dog is that he pushes in once on the sleeve...or is a little chewey on a dumb bell...then life is good. And by the way, if he is chewey on a dumb bell it will probably be my fault because I have limited patience for dumb bells and I have the attention span of a gnat...so I will take my points on chewyness but he will rocket over meter jump and A frame, snap to a quick fuss and fly - platz on a send out...so what's a little cheweyness amongst friends???

Not looking to create drama, arguments or theoretical warfare...just asking for personal experiences and training methods. So far...so good. I have a couple of things to try and see what works.

I don't see how defense will improve grip, it usually does the opposite.

The fullest bite us always prey by definition.

Your helper might not be skilled at bite development. That is the more likely scenario.

The grip fanatics I have seen have 20 different sleeves on hand and choose them like a golfer chooses golf clubs for every shot.

Such helpers are very hard to find anywhere in the world.

 

Prongs, stim, tables..... to stop a shifting "chewey" grip just all sounds wrong and bass ackwards... i fear for the dog.

Table work doesn’t automatically mean defense. You can work a dog in either drive on a table. It depends greatly on the dog, the style of table, and the way the helper is working the dog. There are a variety of ways to use a table that don’t automatically mean defense. Chaining a dog to a table also doesn’t automatically mean defense, as in removing the flight option…because unless the dog knows or cares that the flight option has been removed they won’t be in defense. Tables are useful for exaggerating certain behaviors or focusing the work, it doesn’t have to be just for aggression work.

You might as well tie the dog to a tree and use the back pressure.

You need to have the dog pulling without back pressure, that’s why you need the edge. You know how in trial there is no back pressure on the dog? Well eventually in training you need to not have back pressure either. Not everyone has 3 year old dogs still in harnesses and providing back pressure. If the goal is to at some point title, the dog needs to come out of the crutch and start doing things on it’s own. A table is probably the easiest, conflict free way to get the dog to learn to pull back on the grip if it’s something that needed in order to make sure the dog isn’t trying to push in or look like it’s munching which will cause point loss.

There is no back pressure on my dog either, if you are referring to my three year old dog since he was in a harness. He doesn't need it.
I also know how the table works.

Personally, I prefer to let a male sit for a while. Once they are mature, they learn rather fast and can take quite a bit of pressure. The regular age for a dog to show up at nationals is 5 years of age. So I am not concerned that he's not titled yet. My plans are not IPO for him. I kinda got hooked on suitwork.

Bavarian...as usual you are on point. Thanks for the input. My thoughts are a table box...two walls and only front and back open...front edge...good prey presentation....full bite and helper yielding to slightest tugs. Again, a test/experimentation to see how dog reacts and develop a plan from there. If it works...score...if not re-group and try new approach.

Yogi...thanks for the idea to encourage the "hump back"...over looked that approach.