Why do Mals Turn? - Page 3

Its definately not that they turn on their handlers! What I have experienced is that most people should not own dutchies or mals. It is always the people who think they must always show they are alpha and feel they must be overly dominating to them! The people who believe in the "alpha roles". You just can not do that with a dutch or a mal (most of them), especially a hard dominant one. Or even a gsd with the same characteristics. The way I explain it to people is that you and your dog are a team!! You have to give respect to get respect! Do not think that each hard correction after the other your dog is just going to go about his day happy go luck and eager to please. (and that is just the easiest of our corrections, I know people who get physical with corrections leash, hand, when not heeling right kicking a dog in the chest or stepping on their toes, etc.) I above all know that I should not be practicing or doing training when I am upset or frustrated because it comes out during training. I get irritated faster and I am quicker to give unfair corrections. I personally need a dog like this to keep me focused on what I should be doing! I have a dog that will growl at me to tell me hey you are taking this too far stop and we will try in a little bit. Sometimes that is all I need is just a good 10-20 min breather to relax. I have another dog that will immediately try and eat me. Do not brush off the warnings your dog gives you. Do not correct the warnings your dog gives you! You should be happy your dog is verbalizing to you they are dissatisfied with your treatment rather than just latching on to you. Do not take it overly personal and start with the I feed you you better respect me thoughts and disregard your unfair treatment to him/her. It's those people who get chewed up! Not all dogs warn. You have to know how sensitive your dog is to corrections, know the right kind of corrections to make and at what times(you can give collar corrections to add drive or lessen drive and obviously in higher drive the more aggressive your dog will be), know your dogs limits, know your limits, etc. There are plenty of things that must be considered!

As for another situation I commonly see with both the dutch and mals are misplaced aggression in the bite work. I believe this may be what you are referring to when you mentioned the "turn" on their handlers. Dutch and mals get so worked up when they are doing any kind of agitation work. It could be critical if the handler is inexperienced and tries to take an object (especially bite work equipment) out of a dogs mouth or reaches in front of them to untangle them, etc. during this work. They are so high in drive and out of frustration grabs the first thing that they see or have the ability to grab. I must say I see more mals do this then dutch but I again must refer that most people shouldn't own these dogs (and mals are the popular of the two breeds) and handle them the same as they would another dog when it is just not how it should be done. It is misplaced aggression, it is not something that should be scolded but more so prevented and redirected. It is very important with very high drive dogs like these two breeds to be started at such an early age so they know what to target and they know what is acceptable. I have had 3-4 month old puppies redirect themselves during agitation work. It is bound to happen but if the dog is not started early and does not know what is expected of them then of course a misplaced aggression bite from a 15 month old dog is way more severe than the misplaced aggression bite of a 4 month old. It is no different then if you have 2 non aggressive dogs looking out the window getting worked up over the same squirrel that is taunting them outside of the house and then the squirrel runs off... they want to attack the squirrel (assuming out of prey just as a young dutch or

just realized this cut off so I am reposting here

mal would be working out of) Again any high drive dog (no matter the breed) should be handled by an experienced owner and all handlers should be self aware of what they are capable of and what their dogs and their limits are. Any breed of dog can go up the leash at its handler depending on the individual dog and the individual handler.

Please just do yourself and everyone a favor before purchasing any breed. Do your research and be ready to dedicate a lot of time and effort into your handling skills and your dogs stimulation. Be confident of what you are capable of dealing with and make sure that you can understand your dogs limits, warnings, etc. Thanks for the post hope you have learned something. There is no such thing as a stupid question. There is such things as stupid decisions though so now that you have all this great advice on not generalizing and can see what to look for I hope you do alot of thinking before buying. Have a great day everyone

just realized this cut off so I am reposting here

mal would be working out of) Again any high drive dog (no matter the breed) should be handled by an experienced owner and all handlers should be self aware of what they are capable of and what their dogs and their limits are. Any breed of dog can go up the leash at its handler depending on the individual dog and the individual handler.

Please just do yourself and everyone a favor before purchasing any breed. Do your research and be ready to dedicate a lot of time and effort into your handling skills and your dogs stimulation. Be confident of what you are capable of dealing with and make sure that you can understand your dogs limits, warnings, etc. Thanks for the post hope you have learned something. There is no such thing as a stupid question. There is such things as stupid decisions though so now that you have all this great advice on not generalizing and can see what to look for I hope you do alot of thinking before buying. Have a great day everyone

Yes Prager, which is why I said a dog who turns for "no reason"  would be an insane dog. 

Whether it has a screw loose because of a tumor or faulty wiring really doesn't matter, it would need to be destroyed.  Luckily these are few and far between and certainly not a characteristic found in any particular breed or line. 

Again I wish the OP would specify what the behaviour is he/she is talking about, we all know of  GSDs and I'm sure the same is true with Malis  (in fact I bet many of us have them now)  that redirect or will tag from being mishandled or dogs that will punk crappy handlers, there are lines within breeds that are more predisposed to this kind of behaviour, but none of us is complaining about these kinds of dogs, and most of us just deal with them.  Until the OP comes back and tells us what exactly was the meaning of his original post it's all guess work. 

Jenni 78 since you are intellectually superior to everyone else and you have mastered the art of terminology do us all a favor
when you see a link that will obviously be far below your Superior intelligence.  Don't bother commenting matter fact don't even read it.  I was asking for advise not your smart ass attitude.  Chill out oh great one!

Here is what I meant be saying "Turn on".  Handler aggression here are a few examples.

Has already basically been described:  Coming up the leash, releasing the sleeve and going back on the handler.  I saw one guy who was working his schutzhund OB pattern the gun fire happened the dog nipped the handler in the stomach.  The handler popped him and the next thing you know the dog is hanging off his shoulder with a mouth full of muscle.

There was another story from a handler of a mal agility dog.  The dog was in a side sit position and they were waiting there turn and the dog latched onto the handlers arm and it was so bad she had to have surgery/repair nerve damage.

Now I have also seen guys working their GSD's with welding gloves on because of the way that dog will come back up the leash.

Hope that this helps!

So you saw one person get bit and you heard about one. Do you know the history of the incident you claim you saw?   How do you extrapolate there is a problem in the breed from this?  Doesn't sound like you are interested in getting a Mali, sounds more like you want to talk about dog bites.  Many people wear gloves when working their dogs, has nothing to do with being bit or not.  I'm not even going to comment on the welding gloves.

Macon, long story short is that theres breeds for everybody. It might be the GSD, Mali, or Dutchie. Or it could be a total other breed. It comes down to what you are looking for in a dog and what suits your life style and experiences with what ever backround or discipline your are good at. Don't let anybody tell you that there all bad breeds like the mali because of a few bad apples that are out there. There are bad seeds in every breed. You must get passed the bad and look at the good for what you are exactly wanting in your dog and the disciplines that you and your new partner(s) are trying or are going to achieve in your life time as a team. Dogs sense alot of whats going on in their surroundings good --- bad or neutral zones. Most dogs react on instant and that is something that every dog team / handler must always keep in mind. These are animals and you must always keep that in the back of your head. One of the most important things I was told was always be able to read your dogs body language before introducing the dog to a competive or real situation. There for you can nip it in the butt before something was to go off and get bad or worse somebody getting hurt. So in that said Macon you do what you think is right for you and not what everybody else thinks you should do. Just make a educated decision and do your homework and research, research your breed and bloodline and what other pups from that litter and parents are like before just going out and buying what ever breed you would like to own.

Well obviously Sueincc you don't know me or why I have asked questions.  I am in a very pro GSD schutzhund club and they are the ones who have had nothing good to say about the breed.  Yes I have witnessed some things but my asking these questions through this forum is get the other side or a better understanding of the breed.  If you don't want to comment then don't but don't presume to know my reasons for asking questions.  Don't act as if I am that premature to want to talk about dog bites.  I am trying to learn so chill out!  You are making some presumptions that are categorically wrong!

Gee, a "very pro GSD Sch. club?" Shocker.

Oops...there goes my smartass attitude again.

And you were asking ADVICE, not advise, Macon. If you are going to nastily accuse someone of intellectual superiority (thank you, BTW), you should make sure your insulting post is literate. Just a tip.

You don't seem to want the real answers; what exactly were you hoping we would say?