Why do Mals Turn? - Page 2

Yvette is right as rain (as usual)!  There is a big difference between a dog who spazzs out and redirects or from a dog that will react to an unfair correction from some dog that "turns on you" (which frankly is more the stuff of Hollywood than reality).  It's a matter of not losing your mind over it or getting emotional about it, just deal with it.

 I sit back day in and day out reading the comments on here of people that make automatic assumptions about everything and everybody. Its crazy the things that are on here, there is no more wrong with malinois then GSD. Good mali becomes a great tool just like a great GSD does. If you get bit then you dam well deserved it. Its something that the handler is doing wrong to the dog. Its proven that 90% of dog bites were provoked by their handlers and not the dog saying hey I think I'm going to bite him or her because I feel like it. There is a couple of loose cannons out there but who's fault is that---its the humans fault for poor training and por genetic breeding. I have Dutchies and Mali's from top champion KNPV lines. Yes they are harder, faster, stronger than the GSD but there is plenty of GSD to KNPV too. So you can't put one breed in a class by itself, it does not work that way people. Your allowed to have your favorites but don't pass judge a breed that is great in the streets, homes and family life as well as the sport fields.

I can't believe this is a serious thread! I was expecting a joke when I opened it.

Dogs don't just "turn". There is always a reason. If you get bitten by your own dog, it's highly likely that it is your fault in some way; either you don't see it coming b/c you are inexperienced, or you are too slow, lol.

We wonder why our dogs today are all screwed up....it's this kind of mentality!!! How depressing that in 2009, on a DOG forum, someone asks why a certain breed of dog "turns" on its handler.

Maybe I am not understanding what you mean by the "turning on it's owner".    To me, this describes a dog that for no reason attacks it's owner.  (That would be an insane dog).  This is very different from spazzing out/redirecting (bites whatever  happens to be in the way of it's teeth) and very different from a dog responding to an unfair correction (tags you when you deserve it). 

Perhaps if you describe the behaviour you are talking about we would better understand what you are asking? 

Regarding generalizations.. I'm sure mal owners don't mind owning the generalized belief that mals are these fantastic working dogs. Of course, there is more than a kernel of truth in it. They can be fantastic working dogs. But, there can be other differences, as well. Not all of them are easy to deal with.

I do agree that a good dog will stand up to abuse, eventually. Personally, I respect and appreciate a dog like that. I don't think that we really want the kind of dogs which will allow themselves to be abused. But, if it comes to that, there are degrees of tolerance in the dog. I've known of dogs that would come unglued on their handler at one particular phase of the training routine, and they'd do it every time. You can blame it on a past training mistake, if you like, but casting blame doesn't help to fix the problem. If the problem isn't fixed, the dog will probably end up with a needle in it's vein.

No one knows everything about dogs.. certainly not me. But I have owned a dog that "turned" on me, before, and it was without provocation, but he did have a history of doing this crap. He was a GSD. I got him straightened out.. sort of. I got him to where I could handle him safely, and had absolute control, but no one else would have had a good time with him. He was a nasty, tough dog, and he loved a good rumble with a human being. He was so nasty and pushy that my old bitch cried out for me to come and get her when I put her in with him. She NEVER did that, before.. and never had a problem with other dogs, either. He was very much the feral type. His social behaviors were really throwback to the wolf.

Some dogs are like that. And yes, you have to deal with it. I did. But it's not something I'd volunteer for, knowing what I now know. There are easier dogs to own. Novices tend to want to go straight to the top, but mals can be pretty hard core. If the handler / owner is a hard core kind of guy, it could work out great.

Again, I have never owned a mal, or even had one on a leash. I'm just going on what I've heard, but I have talked to people who have trained extensively in SchH and won a fair amount of trials, and a male malinois was their choice of dog to train. This type of guy generally doesn't fear dogs and doesn't mind getting bitten, once in awhile. Looking forward, it's hard to say how you'll react, if you've never been bitten or chewed, before. Eventually it happens to most people who train dogs.

My favorite bitch right now is one who chewed my thumb pretty bad and used to growl at me frequently. She didn't like me to touch her, even. It took about six months, but we've finally got a good relationship and I now cuddle and scratch her and let her kiss my face. The one good bite that I did get was really my fault. I sold her short and provoked the incident by doing something stupid.

There have been some mals and GSD that I would not trust, but the owners that are handling them understand their dog. There has also been other breeds that have bitten their owners and they had no control over them. Astra was a high drive DS who would have never offered to bit me. I watched Jami's parents on and off the field and liked what I saw, that is good breeding. She has a work ethic I love and also enjoys being with others when not working or training. She also has not offered to bite me. I feel that this is where breeding stable, clear headed dogs come into play. Just my opinion.
Always,
Cee

I think by  "turns on"  macon  means "get bit by". Often it is because BM are
1.often super high prey driven dogs and REACT to motion by biting . (somebody getting suddenly out of chair.)
2. they are so charged up that they bite in misdirected aggression.  (Can not bite the bad guy thus bite the nearest thing to him->you)
3. often they go into solving stressful; situation by biting . Not as a fear but as a first choice to resolve a situation they do not like. (If you for example making/forcing the dog do something they do not know like climb into the dark tunnelthen he may bite you.)Please keep in mind; If the dog bites then there is ALWAYS  a reason. Even rabid dog has reason to bite; Rabies.
Just because we do not know the reason, does not mean that there is none.
Prager(Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com

Very good Hans, I try and explain this to people outside of the Malinois breed frequently and it just doesn't  seem to sink in most of the time.  Malinois are so orally obsessed that they relieve their stress by biting.  It is almost like giving them a pacifier, without it they get frustrated.  I still remember trying to teach my retired SchHIII, IPOIII male the side transport, ohhh was that ugly, every one in sight was a gettin' it!!!  I like your perspective, great minds think alike!!

I got bitten by my dog more than once, and at first I always blame the dog, but after few days when I was thinking of the situation I was like geezy I am a stupid ass I would bit my self if I would do some of the shit to my self.-snaiper69


Not poetry, but hits the mark for most cases of so-called handler aggressive dogs.

Prager has pretty much got it in a nut shell. I have had all three breeds, top lines in all jinopo dogs ( GSD ), Dutchies ( Kikkert, Pegge, Luijken, land of Oz, Risen Star, Van Leeuwen ), Malis ( Ivan's lines, etc... ). Its not a specific breed ----- its specific handlers / breeders. That's the real problem with these bloodlines. Everybody thinks they want them and then when they get them they freak out beacuse its to much drive its to much civil / defense. Everybody needs to research more before they go after these lines from these breeds. Alot in these lines are serious no joke dogs and are not your sporty dogs. Can a Mali bite you for real yes. But what was the reason it. Something that a handler did,  that happens to thinks hes experience and really does not have a clue to a real dog compared to a sport dog. I would have to adventure 99% yes thats the exact reason why. Just remember though every dog no matter the breed will do that. If your unfair to it and try to over correct it you had it coming to you. Thanks to Prager for trying to explain this though in simple terms.