Importing a WGSL Titled Female from Europe - Page 2

the absolute last argument, that any one will ever win, is trying to justify breeding GSD for any other than the intended purpose, with someone who has rescued them.

jmo,
Rik

Johan, thank you for your PM. I would much rather keep this discussion in the public arena.

Why am I being a jerk ? I am being a jerk, my dear, because every once in a while the number of fly by night profiteering greeders overwhelms me. Its not specifically you - but unless I and others who agree with me occasionally take a case in point and have a gripe at that one advertiser at a time, we do not have a whole lot of options. Heaven knows we spend enough time on here (and some of us elsewhere as well) trying to educate people in the general sense about: not just churning out dogs for what you can get out of them, for breeding to specific purposes, for not ripping off the public by charging exorbitant prices, just because there are enough mugs out there that you can; especially if you offer them some empty extra in the way of supposed temperament, or working ability, or fancy colour, or coat length - the public often don't understand that this can take no special effort, there are lots of e.g. long coated GSDs around, without people going out of their way to provide them.

On these Forums we talk about the damage this sort of conveyor belt production of GSDs eventually does to the quality of the breed as a whole; about how many dogs finish up on Rescue because they do not turn out  'as advertised', for one reason or another; because in the pursuit of high prices the people who bred them often don't care too much about whether they are suitable as GSD owners;  about whether those careful breeders who have been around a while and  are experienced enough to really 'produce the goods' are undermined by those who shout about how great their dogs are (but have nothing to back that up). EG Who buy in imported German Showline dogs and fondly imagine / promise their pups will all be suited to hundsports. Everyone has to start somewhere, but of those who start, probably half never should, and of the remainder, it would be more modest of them, and fairer on the buying public, to admit that they are starting out and learning, rather than sell themselves as the greatest thing since sliced bread.  If you really had any concern for this breed, or its history and its future, you would understand precisely what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, all we do in helping and advising and supplying contacts falls on deaf ears in the case of some people who really, when it boils down to it, just see $£$£$£$.  It is hard to calculate whether we stop it happening much, if at all, but it is obvious our information fails to convince a lot of persons willfully determined to make a fast buck for a while. There are already in operation a great many people whose approach reads just as yours does, whose priorities are clearly not primarily focussed on the healthy development of the breed but on breeding to get the public to shell out.  Okay when taken to task for the absence of information you quickly add it - showing you do understand what is being said. But shallow, glossy, basically empty websites, bookended by finance info, are ten a penny. Tell me: is the only thing you have in common with King of Zion German Shepherds a website designer ? 'Cos I don't know if it works like this in the US, but in the UK we have big problems with semi-organised groups of such breeders who keep the whole 'coats & colours' thing going (genetically) for the pet market (and incidentally help keep Shelters in business).

Certainly because of all this I'd be extremely reluctant to make matters worse by random introductions to breeders in England or, say, Italy. If I couldn't spot a bad 'un, I'd have no reputation left.  JMHO

Your reputation is shot!! I am not a bad one!! 

Luckily I don't know you....... or care to, for that matter. Your opinion means nothing to me. Keeping this public just shows what a jerk you are.

You don't know me, my experience or breeding practices..........your opinion is irrelevant and means nothing.

This will be the last place I will ever come for advice in the future if the forums consist of jerks like you. I have nothing more to say to you. 


 

That is your prerogative, Johan. I was intending to make this my last post on the subject anyway, no matter what your response. As I said at the beginning of the conversation, I might not be prepared to offer any contacts, but there may well have been others willing to do so; I have no 'control' over what other members do, or the opinions they might form for themselves having looked at your advert and website. Just speaking to my own reactions.

Of course you are denying that I might be right about your intentions & methods. Of course I might have expected you to go purely on the defensive / aggressive, rather than try to destroy my arguments against the way that you are going about selling GSDs.

I leave this topic with a direct quotation from your own website:
"Whatever it is, the way you tell your story online can make all the difference."

 

https://www.vomcronjehaus.com

to many, many people, dogs are just another commodity for financial exploitation. and I'm not accusing anybody in this thread of any wrongdoing, so if anybody takes it that way, get over it.

and also, I was a show person, so no excuse for me as being some kind of champion of what anybody should do or not do.

but at the end of the day, if anyone can do the google, there are lots of GSD scheduled for termination, and I can't believe how many of them are so well bred.

but really, as long as there are people out there who pay these prices for "boutique" dogs, people are going to breed them and sell them.

I have a niece who has paid $1800 for 2 different Golden/Poodle crosses. Her husband is a Dr. so money is not an issue and the dogs have an excellent home, but who knows the fate of the rest.

so, I'm just going to leave this thread also with just maybe a little advice to any newcomer who might come across it in the future.

1. so that ad with all those pretty dogs saying they are good for "show, protection, sport, LE, S&R, dock diving, whatever, ask the breeder to provide some evidence that they got to the front of the line in show, trained and proofed dogs in trials (above local preferably) or have provided dogs that are successful in LE/Mil. it's pretty simple, if they didn't do it then they have no clue how to do it.

2. I have been doing this for 4 decades. I have had AKC/CAN Champions (bought and or bred in 3 different breeds) AKC obedience HOT dogs. My limited attempt at SV resulted in a trip to Germany, a dog I picked from 3'rd ring at Sieger, and my enjoyment of taking her to a Regional Siegerin in the U.S. and lifetime proofing. so I'm not all clueless and this is my advice:

never trust a breeder with a "non refundable deposit" policy. I don't give a shit the reason or the breeder or the dogs they have. they are only concerned about the check cashing. and like I said, I was swimming around in the shallow end of the pool, but I had some pretty nice dogs for my purpose and never did this.

long post I know,

Rik

Rik, I would not spend 5K for a puppy, ever, well, if it shit gold bars I would...as far as all the rest, I agree with you.

Can we stop the bickering and insults take it to PM's if you can't. Thanks.