About Duco 2 by handler Rob Seegers - Page 1

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by BlackMalinois on 11 August 2020 - 03:08

First hand handler review by owner Rob Seegers

One of the noturious pitbull.malinois mix and  maybe one of most influence breeding
stud in KNPV

In answer to everyone’s questions, I’ve written this text about him:
Duco wasn’t a “wonderdog”, he was just a crossbred Belgian Malinois without an official pedigree, not even DNA tested. The people who had him as a puppy would be pleased to know how famous he has become and that his genes are still to find in many policedogs.

Thirty years ago the internetsite www.bloedlijnen.nl didn’t exist, a dog just needed to be KNPV and more important, practically qualified for the real job required. Some people were interested in, connection to breeding and lineage/bloodline of the Belgian Malinois.

When Duco more frequently was used to fertilize female dogs I tried to find out more on his background, but it didn’t result in a 100 % certainty. This can only be done by DNA tested dogs. The lineage of the female dogs he fertilized wasn’t certain as well. To breed dogs, it is important to know the lineage, this gives implications on heredity in order to prevent in-breeding. Mainly the cause of disability or diseases.

By using the site www.bloedlijnen.nl the registration of our crossbred dogs and their lineage has improved tremendously.

Everybody has his own opinion: we all have different views on beauty and favourite characteristics of a dog. The same with Duco, he was tested on hips, ellbows and back, all of them were very good. But his photo’s weren’t examinated by The Hirschveld Stichting, nowadays normally done.
If the female dogs he fertilized were X-rayd? I am not sure, but when people made an appointment the female dogs were always ‘super’. As owner of the male breeding dog you’re depending on the given quality and lineage of the female dogs.

In the KNVP programme I have seen dogs more beautiful and better performing dogs than Duco. In exercises testing for will, tenacity, scent ans courage was he a great performer, but he lacked in obedience and repetion. Of course he got his ph1. But the owners of female dogs kept coming for his offspring, even at old age. His pups were his best advertisement! Despite the numerous better looking, prize winning competition he never got out of business. He must have had his qualities there! His appearance on photo’s still charms people, but there are also people who have an other opinion.

In short: he was a lovely, very healthy dog with a lot of spirit and character. But to breed healthy, good pups, you need a healthy good partner as well.

Breeders need knowledge on character and behaviour in daily life settings. They need to make analysis on weekness and strenght aspects of their female dogs. The result of that should decide which male dog is suited for the job. Don’t choose the owner, but the quality of the male dog. A bit of luck is always needed, but knowledge of genetics, feeding and caring is unmissable to breed better pups. Prevent in-breeding, it only leeds to misery.
Years ago when I started training dogs we used dogs with a lot of natural talent en stamina. Instead of training them by stimulating good behaviour, as nowadays is done by rewarding them with strokes and balls, we used canes. Different times then. The sport has evolved for the better in a different type of dog.


by apple on 11 August 2020 - 06:08

Apparently not all KNPV trainers use strokes and balls and still use canes as several were recently arrested for animal abuse.

Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 11 August 2020 - 06:08

Apple, out of that entire diatribe that BM posted, is that the only thing that struck you?

by apple on 11 August 2020 - 07:08

I have read it before and yes.

by ThatWasClose on 11 August 2020 - 16:08

I found it an interesting article. I have never seen it before, & I am sure many persons that read here have not either.

Upon first glance at the dog pictured, I excitedly thought to myself, "Oh! That must be one of Mal/Pit crosses I have been told about. Low & behold the article informed me it was.

Recall folks, most of us reading here are not as "educated" as some of you. It is good for us all to learn.

by apple on 11 August 2020 - 17:08

My point was that Seegers’ comments were disingenuous. Many of the KNPV trainers keep their cards close to the vest. That is why the “cane” approach was discovered by hidden cameras. The “cane” approach is how they wash all but the most resilient dogs. I am not judging that approach but do say the author was less than candid. Black Malinois knows what goes on but few talk about it except the KNPV trainer who was pissed about something and went to the news.

by ThatWasClose on 11 August 2020 - 21:08

Sadly there are dirty secrets in most any industry where humans put there animals out there for a trophy.

The horse world has a lot of secrets. Illegal use of drugs. Cosmetic surgery. Abusive training practices.

When I was in the 6th grade, back during the prehistoric era, I wanted a long haired guinea pig. I thought it was neat how wavy their hair was. What a shock to learn they left them in Barbie doll curlers, & hair sprayed the heck out of the animals before it went on to the judges table. Needless to say my parents did not buy me one.

@Apple, your second response was far more educational to the general reading audience here. Not everyone has your level of knowledge. It is good when we can learn from those far more experienced.

Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 12 August 2020 - 06:08

Apple, if you are insinuating that the training methods of the past are still being used today, tell me, why are the current dogs in the KNPV not even close to the dogs that were around 20 years a go?
I am sure there are still people doing things that could be called cruel, but, I promise you, that is not how the vast majority of them train, you would see it in the dogs they produce.
Its not the KNPV, its mostly the PC crowds of today that have a problem with most training methods and making a dog comply.
They have been trying to ban the NVBK since I was a child, for the same reasons and you can see the dogs competing in it today look nothing like the dogs of 20 years a go.
Nope, I do not agree that the majority of trainers use canes or the methods and equipment they used 2 decades a go and the dogs reflect that.
Look at dogs like Bart's Zodt and Joao Lopes's A'Tim from yesteryear, very serious dogs with more social aggression and hardness, more dominance then any dog today. Hell, look at Egbert, another one of Bart's dogs from 10 years a go, gone for ever, never to be found again...these dogs were the product of the training methods of their time and they could handle it, can you say the same thing about the current dogs you see today, locked in prey?

by apple on 12 August 2020 - 07:08

I never said what percentage of KNPV trainers I thought use severe compulsion, just that it hasn't vanished as Seegers inferred. I agree that today's KNPV dogs are largely super social, extreme prey/hunt drive dogs and the old style, dominant, socially aggressive dogs have largely gone by the wayside.

Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 12 August 2020 - 13:08

Apple, do you think there is a correlation between those dogs being gone and the training methods currently used?
I have no idea what percentage of trainers use that severe compulsion either, but, it stands to reason that if most of the dogs being titled today are the type you described, they could not deal with that type of abuse and like I alluded to earlier, I dont believe that there are many left who abuse dogs anymore.
I guess part of me wants that abuse to stop, yet, I am aware that the same abuse caused some really tough dogs to be titled and worked, but, at what moral cost?


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