JUDY MALONE, Diana, TX - Page 2

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by majestic10110 on 23 June 2021 - 05:06

@mrdarcy

If if's and but's were candy and nuts, we would all have a jolly good time!

mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 23 June 2021 - 14:06

No need for sarcasm, just pointing out you have been around here for 11 years? and there's plenty info here about this breeder for you to read.

Now as per our TOS if you have anything further to say to me do so in a PM and not on the forums, thank you.


by ValK on 25 June 2021 - 22:06

majestic
"Ofcourse the DDR dogs were either on Patrol or On the Wall tied up, this is obvious! They may not have distinguished them as such on paper, but were used as such."

look, GS dogs in DDR was foremost a dogs who was living in families with old ppl, young kids, etc. the dogs, used as patrol dogs at border, including "wall dogs", have been absolutely miniscule part of total GSD pool of the country. sure they were somewhat differed from GSDs bred in West but it doesn't mean all and every GSD which was bred in DDR by default was ready patrol dog.

"perhaps you could advise your kennel or website for research"

you may try to search forum.
somewhere in forum i did post long list of known to me breeders, who's specializing in dogs with DDR lineages and other forum members added other breeders to that list. but please keep in mind, none of them breed their dogs to specific of patrol dog standard, used in former East block.
in the past that was done only at government run kennels at the borders and now it's like 30 years or so, since those kennels was liquidated along with a border, as we did know it.


kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 29 June 2021 - 23:06

well, this is what is said about the history of the DDR dogs, and not being bred by failies either. its written similar to this any place you look up DDr dogs, why wouldn t people be wanting dogs bred this way.
One of the greatest impacts to the German Shepherd breed was, in fact, the onset of the Cold War.

The Cold War resulted in 40 Years of Closed Breeding (1949-1990).



The concept of the Iron Curtain symbolized the ideological and physical boundary dividing Europe into two separate areas from the end of World War II in 1945 until the end of the Cold War in 1991. During this period, these countries were virtually cut off from any outside contact. The government made any and all decisions and this happen to include strictly regulating breeding kennels.

The government controlled the German Shepherd pedigree registration and breeding program because they saw the DDR German Shepherd as a military canine. Extremely rigid breeding guidelines were put into practice. Agree with the standards or not, one cannot argue that it did assure that for almost 40 years only the dogs who met strict criteria were allowed to breed. These standards included powerful, deep chested bodies with straight long backs, intimidating presence and supreme intelligence. Strict standards assured that dogs showing signs of hip dysplasia were not used for breeding. Any litter born was examined completely for teeth, ear set, temperament, coat, etc. They examined them as if they were evaluating a piece of military equipment – Did it meet military standards?

These standards included specific working abilities for these dogs – such as, tracking, athleticism, toughness, climbing abilities, hardiness, and the ability to withstand extreme physical conditions and demands. These strict regulations on the breed resulted in the formation of the DDR Shepherd — breeding lines within the border of the Berlin Wall that had no outside influence and were held strictly to government standards.

History of the DDR Dog
THE DDR GERMAN SHEPHERD


The History
In order to understand how the DDR German Shepherd came into existence, we have to go back to World War II and understand a little of the history of Germany.

In 1945, as World War II was coming to an end, the Allies occupied Berlin. The Allied Forces included the United States, France, Great Britain and The Soviet Union. The war, of course, ended in a victory for the Allies and the Soviet Union and the United States subsequently emerged as the world’s superpowers.

By 1941, the Nazi Germany, under Hilter’s leadership had the upper hand, but the tide turned in December 1941 with the bombing of Pearl Harbor. It was then that the United States joined the war and Russia turned to the Allies for support. Because of the invasion their country by Germany, the Soviets joined the Allies, and by late 1944, the United States and Great Britain were closing in on Germany from the West, while the Soviets were closing in from the East. In May 1945, Nazi Germany collapsed when Berlin was taken by Soviet and Polish forces. It is rumored that Hitler committed suicide when it seemed inevitable that the Allies would win.

By September 1945, the German Reich (which lasted only 13 years) and its Axis partners (Italy and Japan) had been defeated. World War II resulted in the destruction of Germany’s political and economic infrastructure and led directly to its division. In the immediate post-war years the German population lived on near starvation levels, and the Allied economic policy was one of de-industrialization in order to prevent any future German war-making capabilities. The U.S. policy began to change at the end of 1946 and by mid 1947, Truman started policies to help stabilize the economy of Germany.

Despite being allies against the Axis powers, the USSR and the United States disagreed about the configuration of the post-war world while occupying most of Europe. A large dispute arose over the boundaries. Because of the different political beliefs between these nations, relationships were strained and thus began the Cold War. The Soviet Union decided to close its borders and this eventually led to the division of Germany into East and West.

The three western occupation zones (U.S., UK, and French zone) would later form the Federal Republic of Germany, commonly known as West Germany. And the Soviet zone became the German Democratic Republic (or Deutsches Demokratische Republik), commonly known as East Germany, both founded in 1949. West Germany was established as a federal democratic republic while East Germany became a Communist State under the influence of the Soviet Union. This fact set the stage for the Cold War which lasted for the next 46 years.

One of the greatest impacts to the German Shepherd breed was, in fact, the onset of the Cold War.

The Cold War resulted in 40 Years of Closed Breeding (1949-1990).



The concept of the Iron Curtain symbolized the ideological and physical boundary dividing Europe into two separate areas from the end of World War II in 1945 until the end of the Cold War in 1991. During this period, these countries were virtually cut off from any outside contact. The government made any and all decisions and this happen to include strictly regulating breeding kennels.

The government controlled the German Shepherd pedigree registration and breeding program because they saw the DDR German Shepherd as a military canine. Extremely rigid breeding guidelines were put into practice. Agree with the standards or not, one cannot argue that it did assure that for almost 40 years only the dogs who met strict criteria were allowed to breed. These standards included powerful, deep chested bodies with straight long backs, intimidating presence and supreme intelligence. Strict standards assured that dogs showing signs of hip dysplasia were not used for breeding. Any litter born was examined completely for teeth, ear set, temperament, coat, etc. They examined them as if they were evaluating a piece of military equipment – Did it meet military standards?

These standards included specific working abilities for these dogs – such as, tracking, athleticism, toughness, climbing abilities, hardiness, and the ability to withstand extreme physical conditions and demands. These strict regulations on the breed resulted in the formation of the DDR Shepherd — breeding lines within the border of the Berlin Wall that had no outside influence and were held strictly to government standards.




As mentioned before, these government standards included tracking abilities, athleticism, toughness, survival abilities, etc. Other breeding criteria of DDR dogs stated that they could only be bred if they were completely free of hip dysplasia. Unlike West Germany, dogs that had “fast normal hips or worse could not be bred. Dam’s had to appear with her whole litter for an inspection of teeth, ear set, temperament, coat, total overall appearance. The testing criteria of the East was also much more rigid than that of the West Germans. They were bred for strong bones to handle the great distances they would be expected to patrol. They were constantly exposed to the harshest weather conditions to build stamina, a genetic resistance to disease, and ability to function in the worst of weather conditions.

The dogs had be able to scale a straight wall (instead of an incline wall), walk balance beams, search more blinds, track longer and farther – the test were stricter and more physically demanding. Only the best of the best would be able to reproduce.

The breeding criteria as well as the harshness of their environment shaped the look of the East German DDR Shepherd into one of pure intimidation. They had large heads, broad shoulders, deep chests and dark coats. They were truly an fearsome looking Shepherd — the DDR Shepherd was a sight to behold.

The East German national breeding program, as ruthless as it was at times, succeeded. The DDR GSD ultimately exhibited a distinctive look that became different from the traditional GSD. Just as Nazi Germany had strived to create a “Super Race” with their ideology, so had East Germany strived to accomplish this with their national dog.

The Border Patrol Dogs

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 30 June 2021 - 03:06

KitKat I am sure ValK will come back on what is written about the whole subject on the Net; but I would like to pick up on one point from that post, a purely observational one. The writer's final paragraph says:
"The E German national breeding programme ... succeeded. The DDR GSD ulltimately exhibited a distinctive look ..." described in the preceding paragraph as:
"...pure intimidation. They had large heads, broad shouders, deep chests and dark coats".

Having seen a few photographs of the time, in which the dogs (incidentally) appear - these were not taken in order to depict the dogs -
I am puzzled by this description. Its true most dogs being used were darkly pigmented in colour; more than average were sable, but there are other possible ways to explain why sables might have become predominant in that selection. But I really cannot hand-on-heart state they were all particularly fearsome looking, nor that they were all any bigger and burlier than the dogs being produced elsewhere at that time. They varied (as the breed still does).

I cannot, of course, speak to the temperament differences.


by txarkoeta on 01 July 2021 - 03:07

I have been looking to buy one of DDR lines in Germany, I live in Spain. I have looked at Vom Kranich Hof, Vom Weltwich, Vom Wolfstaf, Knurris, Grauben Monstab ...... and no, they are not the old dogs anymore, they can be male dogs of 63cm and 36kg ... they have a lot of consanguinity, I have asked many breeders that I want him to work and some honestly tell me that "they are for race lovers" and not for work, I have spoken with many people here and they all tell me that many of the DDRs today are very insecure

kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 01 July 2021 - 04:07

   Hund, i havn t been able to figure out how to post the pics here yet, but i ll say this, i myself love the DDR dogs. i think a person is just as well served by having a dog that is intimidating looking as having one that is bite happy. any deterent is a good deterent.if the look can keep someone from acting, that works just as good. i had two pure DDr females, one was a big black female, my Mag-pie, she was a good 100-110 lb girl, a thug if you would have it that did throw her weight around, she'd move yu out the way if she was coming thru, an overall very good natured, friendly dog, then i had my ludwigseck girl, from grafental kennel. she was a small sable female, maybe 60-65 lbs but she had the heart of a lion. She was totally a no nonsense girl, and she passed that down to her daughters. she would look you in the eye and dare you to bring it, and i have a big probly 130lb male from Maggie, his name is doofus if that tells you anything. a gentle giant. wouldn t hurt no one, but to see him coming at you would make you think, wth is that.

      my point was there was major breeding program for the DDr dogs, they were not just dogs picked up and recruited into the army from kids laps. they were held to a higher standard of breeding, and being so many czech dogs stem from the DDR dogs it makes you wonder why everyone thinks the czech dogs so much more dog. they were the same dogs on border patrol back in the day. maybe the fact that the czech dogs kept up the work dog status for both military and sport and the DDR stayed mostly in just breeding programs with no real work ethic being worked into them any more. I don t know,  can only guess based on what i read and watch. but I for one like the DDr dogs, always have, always will. all my dogs got some DDR fused through them, and those are the ones that went on to be certified police k9s.

    I don t know what happened to me in my travels, i was a showline person for along time, now you look and i have sables and black dogs. I recently got Jaro Ja He grandson, and let me tell you. hes a whole lot of dog. he has a lott of staatmacht dogs on the mother side, ( I know, go figure). he s a pretty good size dog and strong, damn hes a strong dog, and he goes back to DDR. he had some professional training, he s right on the ball but i think the trainer took it a little further then this dog wanted. he will do a good bark and hold, but he does want to add teeth. I wish I could post a pic of him for ya. . and i just had a litter from him and my female that has my grafental girl, Bomber and my kevin son in her.can t wait to see how they turn out.

   anyway, I think there was more to a good many DDR dogs then some want to give credit for.

sorry i drifted a little off topic


by txarkoeta on 01 July 2021 - 05:07

Jaro Ja-He was born in the Czech Republic but was a West German sporting dog. I may one day buy a DDR to test but I think that a tough sports dog like Jaro for example is more versatile

by ValK on 01 July 2021 - 11:07

History of the DDR Dog - well, that's what i call "writers fantasy".
yes, i'm sure DDR breeding program was a success but not in creating intimidatingly looking dogs.
main goal was to create very healthy pool of GSDs. concentration of the effort on that goal did produce on much greater scale more sturdy, athletic build dogs if compared to typical outcome of western approach to same breed.

lots of ppl see broad GSD chest as an aesthetic feature, when in fact that important element for dog's work productivity.
that chest contains larger lungs which are supplying dog by oxygen and bigger heart which pumping that oxygen to dog's bloodstream. such dog, completed with proper muscle mass will remain effective in physical activity much longer that dog with narrow chest, smaller lungs and heart.
as well similar practical approach to other specifics like size of head, strength of hips, shoulders and neck.
there are good reasons behind of that GSD build.

as for temperament - overly aggressive dogs typically did end by being watch dogs on the chain or isolated from direct contact with ppl by other means. albeit being used for guarding purpose they weren't used in breeding.

this site has plenty of records former DDR dogs. not as many pictures as for west bred dogs but still enough to make own conclusion about typical appearance of those dog. unlike western pedigrees, many DDR dog pedigree includes wertmessziffer form of evaluation. it's a great tool to provide information about dogs, including dog's temperament.

one, who's familiar with this form, immediately will notice - majority of the top breeding dogs used back then in DDR, definitely wasn't itself a material to fit requirements, set by breeding facilities which specialized in patrol dogs production.
wertmessziffer, albeit somewhat loose, was used for base assessment at border as well.
the last two digit for male dogs shouldn't contain digit 3. female dogs, if met body build criteria, might had one (among two) digit 3 but that was due to reliance on own breeding. availability of the dogs for selection, unlike in DDR, was quite limited.





 


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