Pedigree help - Should I get this puppy? - Page 2

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by Hundmutter on 15 June 2021 - 04:06

Wise words, Hexe.


by Rik on 15 June 2021 - 10:06

I wonder if this poster is really interested in this litter or is "promoting" this litter.

can't help it and everybody starts somewhere.

but I guess I'm forever a skeptic.

but when someone ask for advice on health certs, and then seems to ignore or not respond to advice, only keep promoting, I do think it strange.



by Hundmutter on 15 June 2021 - 12:06

OOOOooooohhh, you old cynic, Rik ! I take your point though. This could be seen as a little strange; time will tell, I suppose.


by Rik on 15 June 2021 - 12:06

lol Hund, you got the "old" part right. but guess what? with "old" and several decades of GSD in almost all venues comes a certain amount of skepticism as well as experience.

why would anyone who is really concerned about the GSD as a breed, continue to seek positive comments on a breeding that from the start does nor align with the basic health requirements as established by the SV. which was founded by  V.S., the creator of the breed.

and like it or not, agree or not, they are the keeper of the breed.

welp, them and the very serious breeders like Staatsmacht, our very own contributor Duke and also joanro (imo only), and many others I cannot name who still produce GSD that can go into LE/Military service (which after all is a secondary reason for the GSD as estabilished by V.S. when herding became a non issue)  and family protectors, as well as obtain pretty good conformation ratings and also meet all requirements from SV for rating. and just for the record.

I do consider the SV a clown show, but still several rungs above what the AKC, CKC, and the UK have to offer as far as the GSD goes.

of course, I contribute Dukes knowledge to his time in AKC exibition/shows. :-)



Q Man

by Q Man on 15 June 2021 - 13:06

I sorta agree with RIK...I mean when people offer help and then never respond to it then I would say...They're not interested in what you have to say...So no more help...
I don't like wasting my time when it's not wanted...



by Hundmutter on 15 June 2021 - 15:06

Yeah but I thought I was the one who always wondered about peoples' real intentions ;-)

The UK has some of both sorts of breeder / owner, too: those who get to know at least a bit about the subject, because they care. And are capable of producing the goods. And then there are those who are only interested in their own opinions, and think they do not need to bother about health testing and so forth.
I hope 'yellow' does not fall into the latter category, and has some other reason for not returning ...

If you (Rik) are right and its just an attempt to advertise, yellow really ought to be reminded the Classified Ads exist, here, to promote & sell stock; there is no need to tie up the Forum with questions you don't really need to ask. I know its not busy just at the moment but they could be taking our time & attention away from someone who would actually appreciate advice from members ...

by yellow4738 on 16 June 2021 - 00:06

Thanks for all the help, All!

To the skeptics (Yikes!): I didn't mean to "ignore" the questions; I guess I shouldn't have posted this over the weekend because I posted and then closed my laptop for the time being. (I also took off work Monday, so here I am Tuesday finally responding to you all.)

I am not a breeder, and NO I am not trying to promote these dogs (I laughed out loud at that comment!). These are the sire and dam of a breeder that I am looking at getting a puppy from. I am not necessarily new to looking at pedigrees, but I am brand new at looking at pedigrees in much more depth than I ever have before. I'd like to get a dog from someone who is serious about maintaining good lines as well as (obviously) get a dog that will be healthy and at least cut back on the chances of health issues down the line. And the dam here doesn't have health testing (and neither does a few others in her recent line) and this concerned me, so I figured I would ask you all for some guidance on this.

I am looking for a dog for my home, a companion.  I plan to take this dog everywhere with me.  I am hoping for a dog that will protect my family and I BUT I do not plan on putting the dog through any protection training.  I used to be a dog behaviorist years ago as well as a vet tech at a number of vet hospitals. I have also owned and trained my own dogs (including a german shepherd) - some purebred, some not - for as long as I can remember. I haven't had a dog since I joined the Army years ago and, now that I'm out, I'd like to take on a new buddy. I plan on doing extensive training as well as professional training/assistance as well. I work from home so my dog will have all the attention he/she needs; no long workdays with the dog left at home! And now that I am researching pedigrees at a deeper level, I have a new interest in competition training! Although I am still in the research stages of that, too.  So far I am interested in nose work and obedience sports.   Always learning!

I appreciate all of your help, insights, thoughts, and comments! This is so helpful for us newbies who are eager to learn.


by Hundmutter on 16 June 2021 - 03:06

Welcome back Yellow ! You seem prepared to forgive me, Rik & Bob for our grumbling - I'm sure you can understand that for those of us who have stuck around here for years trying to help newbies and others, it does get very exasperating not to get any feedback; to raise further queries of posters, only to have them remain unresponded to, or get partially answered. Its not as if we knew you and could pop round or ring you up and say "Oi, I asked you to clarify such-&-such and you didn't."

Temperamentally, the rapturous Comment section on Sarge's pedigree page indicates that if he throws that to his offspring, they would be ideal for the sort of all-round companion you seem to be looking for. As would the presence of the large influence of Salztalblick dogs in his ancestry. (Likely where he got it from !)

Nothing TOO Work oriented to be too much to live with there.  BUT that's only half the litter's pedigree. We can return to the Hips etc, but what's the Dam's temperament like ? What does she do, when she's not producing pups for her owner ?  You presumably have more chance of getting to know her yourself than the Sire ?

None of this precludes doing the beginnings of e.g. Tracking if you are attracted to it. But one thing we point out to those 'getting started' is that this might not mean you get a very successful dog at whatever you do with it THIS TIME. Maybe if your dog enjoys it, and you enjoy it, look more specifically for that direction of breeding and abilities /apptitude with the next dog; do not expect it all in the one package and without having to wait and work for it. Too many want  'instant first time podium results', and life ain't like that, except for the very lucky few who turn out to have an exceptional dog and become exceptionally good at training.

As Bob says, pups are always a crap shoot.  As I'm sure you realise yourself, and have picked up from my earlier post,  I think you do have to weigh up the risks you are taking; but these may not be that great, and having said that, we see far worse pedigree records, with much worse or more missing health test results, than this bitch's pedigree. And there are always, particularly with things like HD and epilepsy, unquantifiable occurances of disease seemingly 'out of nowhere'.  At least a 'family' of dogs with most of the info present, and mostly Passes, indicates the people involved have been knowledgeable and caring, so better stock gets produced that way.

by yellow4738 on 16 June 2021 - 05:06

Thanks again for your reply Hundmutter. I truly appreciate your time.

The sire and the dam are owned by the same person. He has multiple females and 2 males that he uses as studs for his own females. Sergeant I believe is his main stud.

I will admit I have not seen them in person as I live across the country from him, but based on his videos I have seen, they all seem happy and healthy. I know that he does not have them in any dog sports, he trains them himself with basic obedience, and they live on his 5 acres in the country.

I like both the sire and dam's temperaments (again, based off the videos I have seen and on how he describes them). And a combination of both fits perfectly for what I am looking for: low-medium drive, eager to please, family dog who loves car rides and chasing after the ball or stick, confident but not to the point of bullheadedness - been there done that with a great dane I once owned and trained and I do NOT have the time and patience to work through that at this point in my life. I want a dog that is a family dog but can do a little more than just lay around the house. Which is why I have been looking for the working line german shepherds.

I appreciate your note on the tracking and not getting the "perfect dog" the first time around. It's important for me to be realistic in my expectations.

One more question - and I'm probably out of line even asking this, but I'm going to ask it anyway!: Would you say that price points are affected by whether or not a dog is health tested?

Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 16 June 2021 - 09:06

I have no idea what you are willing to pay for a puppy, but, if I were you, I would look into a breeder who does health tests and who actually trains and tests their dogs in some type of event, whatever that is.
Just because a GSD is sable, for example, it does not make it a working dog and working means its actually capable of real life work.
I was also not interested in some bounce off the wall, sleep for 30 minutes a day and be wired like a crack fiend the rest of the time type of dog when I got mine a year a go, but, I also wanted something within specific parameters and I looked long and hard until I found it.
Remember, this is a dog you will have to live with every day for 10-12 years and you will need to enjoy that, otherwise, there is no sense in having it.
For me, I need to see something more then run around and chase sticks as an adult, I want to see how your temperament has been tested, I want to see you offer real protection, etc.
If you believe that is the puppy for you, by all means, get it. If you are questioning your decision, it means that you are having some doubts and you should listen to them too. Best of luck either way.


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