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by jessiejames on 23 August 2010 - 22:08
by Heidi1068 on 24 August 2010 - 00:08
I dont understand what the trouble is with long coats ( of which my GSD is ) or black color ? Again I am new and just trying to learn .... LOL
by Kaffirdog on 24 August 2010 - 07:08
I expect David took his posts of because of the dig at him. Pity, I thought it a useful bit of information.
Margaret N-J
Margaret N-J
by Videx on 24 August 2010 - 08:08
Far too many people on this board completely FAIL to grasp very important FACTS.
1) The GSD is a numerically large breed
(there are over one hundred thousand GSD alive in the UK at any one time)
2) MOST other breeds are numerically small breeds
(far fewer in number than the GSD - some only number in the low hundreds)
1) The GSD is a numerically large breed
(there are over one hundred thousand GSD alive in the UK at any one time)
2) MOST other breeds are numerically small breeds
(far fewer in number than the GSD - some only number in the low hundreds)
I would have thought that even the thickest person could work out that "the chances of discovered and reported diseases in the numerically smaller breeds, WAS CERTAIN TO BE FAR LESS THAN IN THE GSD.
(covering up problems in the numerically small breeds and some numerically large breeds, has achieved an ART form, within a "closed shop")
by doriskenny on 24 August 2010 - 09:08
If i am going off on the wrong subject here then please tell me, but what i find amazing is the breeders of the Labradoodles or Labrasheps.
I know of a lady in the GSD world that knew that her dog carried epilepsy and she put him over her labrador and sold the puppies for £900 and i am now mad that my girl carn't be bred from with a score of 26. I am not going on about that again, it's over, but what about dieases that these people are creating? It makes me so mad the public are flocking to buy these mongerals at a terrible price.
Doris
I know of a lady in the GSD world that knew that her dog carried epilepsy and she put him over her labrador and sold the puppies for £900 and i am now mad that my girl carn't be bred from with a score of 26. I am not going on about that again, it's over, but what about dieases that these people are creating? It makes me so mad the public are flocking to buy these mongerals at a terrible price.
Doris
by Abby Normal on 24 August 2010 - 10:08
OK Videx
1) I don't know how many Labradors are there in the UK and how many BC's. Do you know? Ido know they are numerically large, and I certainly see more BC's and Labradors than I do GSDs these days. I love the openness of the BC breed, but I agree it is quite rare.
2) Most but not all. If it is 'stupid' to apply a simplistic comparison, (and yes, I agree it was simplistic) let me ask again, upon what do you base your statement that The GSD breed is one of the most healthy breeds in the UK and the rest of the World? Why might it not be the Labrador based on disease vs numbers? Please explain your rationale for the statement.
The average person who wants to select a breed of dog, if they are presented with health information, is not going to see the GSD as healthy. Q - Are they going to see 46 different inherited diseases as perfectly OK because it is a numerically large breed - of course not. They are going to apply a 'simplistic' comparison. Do they want a dog with the potential of suffering from a list of 46 diseases or 5? It's a no brainer. Registrations for the GSD have been going down year on year - coincidence? The numbers are a causal factor to the number of health issues that affect the GSD along with other breeds, but let's not fool ourselves into the idea it is a healthy breed because of that - THAT is stupid.
As the OP said, the next breed of dog she is looking at has 5 potential inherited diseases. Lots of shepherd people are leaving the breed because of the health problems, as the OP, not just the person who is trying to decide on their first or next breed of dog. Whenever someone raises a question like this someone else comes on and tries to negate it with statements like VIdex. It is called denial, or as Videx illustrated sticking our head in the sand. I would really like to see someone (a breeder, Breed Council or Club) admit that we have a lot of health problems within the breed, rather than trying to diminish them with a single simplistic statement. I doubt that the OP is reassured in any way by your statement, enduring such health problems as she is with her GSD.
Margaret N-J - the useful link is still there, and you are right it is useful and everyone should read it. BTW No-one had a 'dig' at him, just challenging a statement made.
1) I don't know how many Labradors are there in the UK and how many BC's. Do you know? Ido know they are numerically large, and I certainly see more BC's and Labradors than I do GSDs these days. I love the openness of the BC breed, but I agree it is quite rare.
2) Most but not all. If it is 'stupid' to apply a simplistic comparison, (and yes, I agree it was simplistic) let me ask again, upon what do you base your statement that The GSD breed is one of the most healthy breeds in the UK and the rest of the World? Why might it not be the Labrador based on disease vs numbers? Please explain your rationale for the statement.
The average person who wants to select a breed of dog, if they are presented with health information, is not going to see the GSD as healthy. Q - Are they going to see 46 different inherited diseases as perfectly OK because it is a numerically large breed - of course not. They are going to apply a 'simplistic' comparison. Do they want a dog with the potential of suffering from a list of 46 diseases or 5? It's a no brainer. Registrations for the GSD have been going down year on year - coincidence? The numbers are a causal factor to the number of health issues that affect the GSD along with other breeds, but let's not fool ourselves into the idea it is a healthy breed because of that - THAT is stupid.
As the OP said, the next breed of dog she is looking at has 5 potential inherited diseases. Lots of shepherd people are leaving the breed because of the health problems, as the OP, not just the person who is trying to decide on their first or next breed of dog. Whenever someone raises a question like this someone else comes on and tries to negate it with statements like VIdex. It is called denial, or as Videx illustrated sticking our head in the sand. I would really like to see someone (a breeder, Breed Council or Club) admit that we have a lot of health problems within the breed, rather than trying to diminish them with a single simplistic statement. I doubt that the OP is reassured in any way by your statement, enduring such health problems as she is with her GSD.
Margaret N-J - the useful link is still there, and you are right it is useful and everyone should read it. BTW No-one had a 'dig' at him, just challenging a statement made.
by LilyDexter on 24 August 2010 - 13:08
Labradors have had the highest number of registrations per year for about the past 13yrs if I recall correctly. So that makes for a much more numberically strong breed than the GSD & yet less inherited illnesses.
From my own personal experiences I have had over the years 3 GSD & each one has had more inherited illnesses than the last, suffered more in their lifetime, and , unless a miracle happens with this present one, each has had a shorter life than the last. Is this progress? Of course I may just be unlucky!
I don't expect to find a breed without a genetic illness, or to be fortunate enough to have a completely healthy dog that lives until 13yrs & dies in it's sleep, but I would like to broaden my chances a bit of having a dog that can enjoy life & doesn't cost a fortune in vets bills.
I have actually heard of breeders planning to breed from dogs that have had Anal Furunculosis because thier dogs are now in remission from it. As somebody whose dog has just been through the trauma & expense of this illness I find it quite disgusting that supposedly knowledgeable breeder could be so greedy & selfish as to perpetuate this illness in the breed.
And lets face it that is just the tip of the iceberg.
From my own personal experiences I have had over the years 3 GSD & each one has had more inherited illnesses than the last, suffered more in their lifetime, and , unless a miracle happens with this present one, each has had a shorter life than the last. Is this progress? Of course I may just be unlucky!
I don't expect to find a breed without a genetic illness, or to be fortunate enough to have a completely healthy dog that lives until 13yrs & dies in it's sleep, but I would like to broaden my chances a bit of having a dog that can enjoy life & doesn't cost a fortune in vets bills.
I have actually heard of breeders planning to breed from dogs that have had Anal Furunculosis because thier dogs are now in remission from it. As somebody whose dog has just been through the trauma & expense of this illness I find it quite disgusting that supposedly knowledgeable breeder could be so greedy & selfish as to perpetuate this illness in the breed.
And lets face it that is just the tip of the iceberg.
by Abby Normal on 24 August 2010 - 16:08
LilyDexter
You are right. There are 4 X as many registered Labradors than GSD! I thought there were considerably more, but I didn't realise it was that considerable.
That is appalling about the breeders and AF. I too have personal experience of the disease quite a number of years ago now, and it's a rotten nasty disease. To consider breeding and wishing that on any dog - I can't find the words to describe that, well I can but it is unprintable.
How about then, in the interests of openness within the breed someone starts a website where they dedicate a page for people to record dogs diagnosed with AF, together with it's pedigree, and ENCOURAGE owners and breeders to use it. That would demonstrate a degree of openness, which quite frankly I don't believe exists. Perhaps the BC or GSDL could do this, it would be a start, and tbh there is no need for any complicated database to do it.
You are right. There are 4 X as many registered Labradors than GSD! I thought there were considerably more, but I didn't realise it was that considerable.
That is appalling about the breeders and AF. I too have personal experience of the disease quite a number of years ago now, and it's a rotten nasty disease. To consider breeding and wishing that on any dog - I can't find the words to describe that, well I can but it is unprintable.
How about then, in the interests of openness within the breed someone starts a website where they dedicate a page for people to record dogs diagnosed with AF, together with it's pedigree, and ENCOURAGE owners and breeders to use it. That would demonstrate a degree of openness, which quite frankly I don't believe exists. Perhaps the BC or GSDL could do this, it would be a start, and tbh there is no need for any complicated database to do it.
by missbeeb on 24 August 2010 - 16:08
Pretty sure the BC did this some years back, not sure if it was Malcolm Willis collating the info and I don't know how much info was offered. Pretty sure you were asked to submit a copy pedigree of the dog concerned.
Maybe you could offer your services? Collect current info? It would be very useful.
by LilyDexter on 24 August 2010 - 16:08
I believe that Dorothy Cullum and the GSD Information Group are collating eveidence & have found a genetic marker for AF.
I have already submitted DNA swabs from my dog towards the research.
I would like to see a database where dogs that have been diagnosed with illnesses could be listed. But there would have to be definate proof, eg a vets report, etc to prove the diagnosis of illness before dogs could be recorded as having suffered from an illness.
It would also be useful to have dogs ages at death listed, so that accurate records of current lifespans could be available (all supported by the dogs pedigree).
The only thing with this though is it would only record ill heath, so people may be put off of using a particular line because of an illness, when the lines themselves were actually pretty healthy. It woul dneed to be broken down into percentages of how many offspring the dogs have produced.
Something a bit like the old HD Sore charts that used to be published in the league handbooks years ago.. They were very useful. Does anyone still collate & publish those statistics?
I have already submitted DNA swabs from my dog towards the research.
I would like to see a database where dogs that have been diagnosed with illnesses could be listed. But there would have to be definate proof, eg a vets report, etc to prove the diagnosis of illness before dogs could be recorded as having suffered from an illness.
It would also be useful to have dogs ages at death listed, so that accurate records of current lifespans could be available (all supported by the dogs pedigree).
The only thing with this though is it would only record ill heath, so people may be put off of using a particular line because of an illness, when the lines themselves were actually pretty healthy. It woul dneed to be broken down into percentages of how many offspring the dogs have produced.
Something a bit like the old HD Sore charts that used to be published in the league handbooks years ago.. They were very useful. Does anyone still collate & publish those statistics?
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