WGWL Service Dog breeder, Pedigree analysis help-"lord"? - Page 2

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by Rik on 08 November 2021 - 14:11

nicole, since you came here and asked, and since I am not only very closely associated with a breeder in your pedigree, but also very familiar, first hand, with many of them, I'm going to make this suggestion.

Do a search on posts from BE, the above poster. She is a second generation, European w/l gsd person (not sure if she breeds).

what she does, with a disability, is absolutely amazing to see. I have never met her or her dogs, but if I was looking for a GSD that has potential for service, this is the person I would contact.

the other suggestion I have is a former poster banned from here, joanro. if a dog, a buffalo or a squirrel, I really doubt there is a more knowledgeable animal behaviorist/trainer/breeder in the U.S.

and no, I'm not the lord,
I do, however, strongly believe in Him



by Sunsilver on 08 November 2021 - 16:11

Joanro used to perform at rodeos, riding her Brahma bull, and a pinto horse that tried to kill her when they first met!



by Rik on 08 November 2021 - 21:11

SS, that is pretty interesting.

I disagreed a time or two with joan (kinda thinking maybe you and I disagreed a time or two) before I came to realize what an amazing talent she is in the animal world. really a shame she got banned here.

but at the end of the day, she knows what she knows. and I can't think of anyone who has demonstrated it across such a wide level of animal life. a true (insert any animal) whisperer.

but maybe not so much a mod whisperer.


mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 09 November 2021 - 04:11

Used to love reading her stories about her days training/performing with her animals, and I'm not a lover of these types of acts,very knowledgeable lady. Huge pity she couldn't follow the rules like everyone else.

by nicolestone63 on 09 November 2021 - 09:11

@GSCat thanks so much for the response; that confirms what I had suspected re getting in touch with the right people. That makes sense regarding IPO titles, I hadn't considered that since that's not really a sport I am involved with but it makes sense!


I'll get in touch as sugguested; appreciate all the tips in this thread! 


by Sunsilver on 09 November 2021 - 10:11

(kinda thinking maybe you and I disagreed a time or two)

Where's that ROTFLOL emoticon when you need it?? LOL!  That's an understatement!

Yeah, it's too bad Joan seemed to sort of lose it after awhile. I often wondered what was going on with her, as her more recent posts (especially in the Off Topic section) often seemed to make very little sense. I wish her well, and hope she's okay.

by nicolestone63 on 09 November 2021 - 14:11

I updated his photo to something without his hiking gear on so you can get a better idea of his structure, clearly I am not familiar with stacking but I did my best; i'll eventually get an acceptable photo lmao. You are correct I do not have any credentials as a breeder, although I am pursuing CHIC for him before he is allowed to sire, at the bare minimum; I would eventually like to start my own kennel but I have a lot to learn and I would have to finish veterinary school before I am physically and realistically able to take on that type of commitment. I am just dipping my toes in here and trying to learn what I can, I'm not in a hurry since my dog is a male and if he ends up not making the cut, I'm still happy to own him and will know more for the next pup I take on.


by Hundmutter on 10 November 2021 - 03:11

Hi again Nicole. I will take a look at your new photo in a bit ! Thx.

TBH it is difficult to give you any more assistance or advice, from my perspective. Others here have offered a lot of details fleshing out what BE and I started by saying, that if you want to Stud a male, he needs far more than a list of possible females to be bred to.

I don't know that it is quite the same in the US [Rik's ASL S/L contacts might help you here], but over in the UK I do not know of ONE 'important, established' Breeder of GSDs who got there from a starting point of holding a Stud Dog (even one of known & proven merit). Every successful breeder I can think of (going back 50+years here !)  started out by having a nice female and an interest in the Breed as a whole, and finding an already fairly successful dog to mate her to. Generally taking the advice of experienced breeders and enthusiasts on whether he would 'suit' her bitch, along the way. And then doing their best to place the pups with owners who might make the most of THEM in one discipline or the other, whether that was conformation Showing or a sports choice or Search & Rescue or whatever. Breeders do not get 'famous' overnight, they accept that "puppies are a crap-shoot" and weather the storms described by Hexe's first paragraph. Only once they are experienced people, consistently producing good stock, do they start offering males they have bred, or picked & purchased, at stud.

Of course I have known of people who specialised in holding a Stud ( or two or three ...) but these are never the good breeders I'm talking about; they are the people who have a name ONLY for offering the performance of their male to all comers (at a price, obvs) and clearly not knowing, or caring, what those (many) bitches will likely produce - except lots more purely 'pet' GSDs, into a flooded market. A lot of pups produced by that route end up in Rescue.

That isn't, by the way, a reflection that every pup producd that way was a waste of space  - one of the nicest dogs I have ever had in my care was the product of an excellent (but Pet)  properly linebred WGSL bitch and the 'local' Stud owner's dog ! He was completely wasted, as he'd have been terrific in some working environments, probably the range you yourself are interested in ! Unfortunately he was bought by my then Boss !  But at least that meant I had the pleasure of his upbringing and company for some years, which I could never regret. 



by Hundmutter on 10 November 2021 - 04:11

Thanks for the updated photo and yes, its much better for anyone being able to see what they would get, physically. And no, it isn't 'stacked' ! But for the folk who have 'service' females whose attention you'd be looking to engage (those who are not looking for Show dogs of either ASL or WGSL type), its a better look at the dog than the first one in all his working gear (although there is always a place for showing that too).

It is impossible IMO to 'critique' properly from one still photograph; too many other details that make up the 'whole dog' (dentition, gait, and so on) cannot be read from a photo. It is clear he is still young, and needs to fill out somewhat, which he will do as he matures. He looks to have a decent bone structure, and pretty good feet.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 10 November 2021 - 19:11

Here is the thing with breeding specifically for Service Dogs.

You can't. Not with German Shepherds, IMHO.

For example, there is a reason why so many Shepherd SD breeding programs are failing because they are not breeding for what the GSD is actually supposed to be but for a specialized purpose.

If you breed for SD's you want easy to handle, biddable dogs and you put your entire emphasis on that, you will loose resilience and end up with dogs that are too soft to handle any type of pressure. And with pressure I don't just mean corrections, but also environmental pressure, social pressure etc.

You need drive. Not energy but drive. Medium drives, a solid character, neutrality, resilience and stability.

A lot of people knock IGP titles. It's not necessarily the title that I want to see on the dog, I want to see the weaknesses and strengths in the dog getting to the title.

There are certain ways to see stability and resilience in a dog but most pet people or SD Handlers, don't have the expertise to know what to look for.
All I have to do is to go through Tiktok Service Dog Videos. 90% of the time you see stressed dogs and the handlers are entirely oblivious to their dogs stress.

If you truly want to help produce Service Dogs, get involved with the breed. Breed for balanced, stable and resilient dogs.
Except for one litter, I've had Service dogs in every single litter. From Seizure Alert and Response, to Mobility and PTSD/Medical Alert dogs.

Every dog I breed has to be capable of being a Sport Protection and Service Dog at the same time. There are things you can hide in Sport Protection that you cannot hide when a dog is a true Service Dog.

There are dogs that can show phenomenal power and strength in protection but have zero environmental stability. I will weed those out in a heartbeat, no matter how nice their grips are on a helper.

The other key is to intimately know the dog. Truly know their strength and weaknesses and how they compliment each other. But always breed for the total German Shepherd Dog and what they are actually supposed to be.


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