Understanding genetics , please help me understand. - Page 3

Pedigree Database


by Hundmutter on 22 May 2021 - 08:05

GSCat I think that is really sad. Over here, athough GSDs have suffered a poor public image for many years, on & off, (fostered by the media here a great deal of the time) it has rarely got to the state of 'official' denigration. (Perhaps the K9 rep has helped with that, we Brits are often very pro our Police Dogs). But officialdom has been quicker than the general public to condemn by breed - both Rottweilers and our 6 Banned Breeds (inc some that have never or rarely been seen in these shores !) but particularly the American Pit Bull Terrier / variations on Pits have suffered Disapprobation by the State - and yet there is huge acceptance of the notion that Breed Specific Legislation is so wrong.  Lots feel that it should be Deed Not Breed that gets legislated against.  And Pit-mixes, despite the illegal status, remain very popular & numerous - we mostly don't want anything to do with the fighting scene though ! (Also illegal).Those who want big tough dogs to frighten people with have moved on, as they always will. Sadly, with ref to the current discussion, some include Malamutes in those.

There is SOME reluctance with landlords, and property insurance, to tolerate the GSD,  but generally the prejudice is instead against all dogs, where it is written in to leases and tenancy agreements.  We all in GSDs have those 'walking on the other side of the street / those are Lions ! / nasty smart remarks' moments from the fearful; but I can't help feeling that some of what goes on in the US is related to the greater degree of public reliance on PP Dogs as a discouragement to gun culture - something that fortunately has yet to enter so far into the British consciousness ?

I think some Shelters might use the testing if it were donated to them - either by the public, a potential adoptee, or a company promoting its servces - but am really not aware of that being a frequent occurance.



by Hundmutter on 22 May 2021 - 08:05

Thanks Rik. See, I would refer to the dog in question as a Bicolour. That should nicely illustrate to the OP the difference of opinion within the breed !  ;-)

BTW, I also thought that first adult pic was of a mix that possibly included Rottie somewhere - but I have had pure-bred GSDs that had Rottweiler physical traits crop up before ( not always with drop ears, mainly the shape/breadth of their head and set of shoulders ).


by Rik on 22 May 2021 - 09:05


hund, here is one of mine that I considered bicolor, but i wouldn't swear to it.


by Hundmutter on 22 May 2021 - 13:05

Rik - she's got minimal pencilling on toes, and black hocks, from what I can see in the pic, so I would think she would 'pass' anybody's Bi test. For me she would always be a bi-colour even without those, given the extent of her black.

by hexe on 22 May 2021 - 22:05

Luluevans, my apologies if it seemed I was looking down on your pups--that was never my intention, because as much as I love my GSDs, prior to owning my first one, I had Siberian Huskies, Alaskan Huskies and Husky/Coonhound mixes which made up the sled dog teams my ex-husband and I raised, trained and cared for in conjunction with a team of four other sled dog racing families...so I know full well that a good dog is a good dog, purebred and registered or not.

As for what is or is not a true 'bi-color' in the GSD, I've long heard that one needs to look to the vent to make that determination--the anal opening will be surrounded by a light tan to darker brown/red area when the dog's tail is raised.


by Hundmutter on 23 May 2021 - 04:05

Because Annie is in Show stance, its impossible to see from 2 pics on here what her rear 'vent' was like.    Rik ?


Not sure I've ever bought that one, Hexe; too many 'extensively marked B&T' examples, ie without pencilling &c, have a tan vent around their anus ( & not extending beyond that area) for it to be a sure sign IMO. The family line of dogs I worked with for a dozen years had many, non-saddle, very dark dogs in it. Some had pencilling, some had hock marks, some had anal vent patches; not all did. I drew my opinion mostly from them, not from the Black& Red cookie-cutter Showdogs of the other kennel I had a long association with.

Really I have come to conclude - if people want my personal view - that if a distinct Bicolour (ie genetically) does exist, you'd have to restrict it to a dog which has all of the following:

   very little extension of the tan markings above the feet / equivalent of human ankles   (i.e. NOT tan halfway and more up the legs)

   all toes / feet pencil-marked

   back of both rear legs / hocks patched by black pigment

   tan eyebrows on an otherwise all black head

   tan patching,  minimal but present on these - vent under tail, patches below jaws, front of shoulders

[& probably NO stray white hairs on chest or toes.  ;-) ]

Whether that is due to doubling  a t,  or  A,   I leave to the geneticists to confirm; but the wide prevalence of variations, including - and missing - any or all of those points seems to indicate that many many breedings between 'true' Bis and genetically Saddled dogs have led to a huge diminuition of dogs which precisely conform.


by Jenni78 on 23 May 2021 - 08:05

Lulu, the dog is black and tan. Not bicolor. The dog looks as I would expect given the genetics you posted. In terms of not wanting to know Malamute color genetics or German shepherd genetics, just color genetics in general--- color genetics "in general" don't exist. What is dominant and recessive depends on the breed. So, when you mix two breeds with totally different color genetics, you could get anything on either side or a combination thereof.

The only thing I can tell you with certainty is your dog is black and tan. The report matches and the genetics for upright ears are not the same as having upright ears that actually stand.

If your question was misinterpreted, I apologize.


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