future of policedogs - Page 3

Pedigree Database

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by duke1965 on 08 November 2020 - 13:11

johan, swedish program is, for as far as I know, working with a rotating system that decides which males, breed which females,(correct me if im wrong) this in itself is good foundation for faillure, as you have to match every breedingcombination beginning with evaluating genetic qualities of the female, and select a male to match/improve,

randomly breeding available males to available females will not do the job

in regard to less GSD being bred overall, there is a HUGE community right now breeding non pedigree dogs for production of policedogs, that are responsible for large part of todays LE dogs


by Rik on 08 November 2020 - 13:11

Valk, I probably wasn't clear but I was talking about many dogs used by the U.S. military coming from family homes.

the concept is the same though.

by duke1965 on 08 November 2020 - 14:11

johann, also I have been contacted several times about dogs for sweden, but so far not willing to pay "market value" and other european countries are raising budgets pretty much

by ValK on 08 November 2020 - 15:11

Rick, perhaps theoretically it's same. but i believe professional and knowledgeable approach to breeding as it was practiced in Germany would definitely give much greater quantity suitable for needed purpose dogs than breeding in family with purpose to witness the "miracle of life".
also, i don't know precise numbers but seen estimates from half an million to over one million dogs in possession of German Wehrmacht. i doubt US Army at that time was even close to that quantity.

Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 08 November 2020 - 16:11

There is no entity on this planet capable of breeding the type and amount of dogs needed world wide as working dogs.
The breeders in the USA are more focused on breeding for purposes other then work, even though they call their dogs working lines, because there is money in that type of breeding.
When a Government is looking to purchase several thousand dogs a year to supply to its many agencies, it has no choice but to accept crap dogs that no one else wants.
Some of these dogs will end up biting their handlers, thats a fact, some of them will not work, despite all the training.
Since there is no world wide or even a National standard, everyone who breeds dogs for LE, breeds what their idea is, not what agencies necessarily want.
This is an issue that will be resolved soon because like I said earlier, patrol dogs used as offensive tools will soon be a thing of the past, with all the lawsuits and complains and society becoming what it is.
I do like what Duke said as far as breeding dogs with no papers for police work...police dogs do not need papers, they need the proper temperament and drives.

by johan77 on 08 November 2020 - 17:11

Duke, I know the police quite recently changed what they are willing to pay, about 7500 euro as most, almost twice the amount they could paid earlier but what I heard this haven´t changed much the amount of dogs from private breeders, I guess it´s still not much of a profit if about 1/3 of the dogs in a litter will pass the selectiontest on average. Don´t know what the marketprice is in rest of europe.

The swedish military breedingprogramm aim is to have a closed population of about 80 females and 15-20 males to better be able to controll the selection of breedingdogs. Don´t know what you mean by a ""rotating system", as far as I know they select the best dogs from the best litters that is better than the average in their population, they use some kind of index method to select the breedingdogs for workingability/charater.

by duke1965 on 08 November 2020 - 20:11

by rotating i mean that certain male will breed group of females this year, another group next year and so on, you have to match every single combination individually, there are no magic systems or formulas that can make one breed large numbers of good dogs

by duke1965 on 08 November 2020 - 20:11

Hired,one of the reasons IMO why USA finds it harder and harder to get good dogs is that they get to picky about many things, they miss out on many good dogs for wrong reasons, like chipped tooth, short tail, castrated, tipping ears and so on and so on, also the amount of dogs rejected on xrays is growing every year, they refuse xrays that  will be accepted by everybody else, and I could go on for a bit

by ValK on 08 November 2020 - 20:11

Hired Dog
breeding dogs with no papers for police work

i found this remark about not documented dogs strange and somewhat confusing. i don't really have problem with such dog's status. after all, only 1 out of 6 my dogs had officially credible and acceptable paperwork. 
are those undocumented dogs are pure bred or mutts?

i know that this dog was used by Turkish police for breeding with pay for travel and other expenses, albeit officially it's not GS dog because no SV or equal documents. whatever such cases today extremely rare and almost impossible to find even in former East European countries, where even dogs today have become valuable commodity.

if mutts, then that is way into nowhere because impossible to have any predictability and consistency in such breeding. mutt litter might have 1 suitable for LE dog but what happens with remaining litter mates and what gonna to be used in next mating?


by Hundmutter on 09 November 2020 - 02:11

Lot of truth in that, ValK. UK Police dog units Register and keep proper records, not because they are trying to produce dogs that will go for pets or sports sales, they are primarily breeding for dogs to pass their own training and pass out as operational patrol dogs. But they want to keep track of them and know as best as possible where those dogs have come from, especially any that prove good enough to use as future breeding stock. Given that so many of their dogs have been 'handed in' (without paperwork, even if "Working bred") rather than bred for them or by them, I'm sure they have more than enough animals with a 'mystery' background that they then do not want to add to that position by not bothering with their own recording.


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