Difference between.... - Page 1

I am curious, i have read it mentioned a lot here on PDB. Have heard people use the terms and i am curious. What are the true differences between a dog with Civil Drive and one that is "nervy". I keep hearing the same definition applied to both terms. Is it the general consesus of this board that a dog who is "sharp" is just a nerve bag or is it a dog that is a little on the edge with maybe an out of balance civil? I have asked a few different people what they classify as Civil vs a Nervy dog and have gotten all kinds of explinations but not really a clear explanation. 

I thought I was reading a few behaviors a dog was displaying as civil drive but now am wondering if the behavior is more out of bad nerves????

They are different definitions IMO, but a nervy dog can be civil, and a civil dog can be nervy.
A dog that is "sharp" or reactive is quick to get civil, which for me is a nerve problem. I would rather a dog be able to take pressure before getting civil.
Aggression is a response to stress, so a dog showing aggression with little or no pressure has weak nerves. whereas a dog that takes some pressure before getting civil has higher thresholds.

That´s a tough question...
A civil dog ( for me ) is a dog willing to defend it´s property ( territorial genetics ), and it´s owner, not because of training, but because of genetics, self-assured, sometimes narcissistic.
"True" civil dogs are calculable, and they are more or less easy to train. You are able to understand their behavior.

A "nervy" dog may show similar behavior at first glance, but this behavior is not calculable because of "thin nerves". You can´t really rely on these dogs - fight or flight - you never really know what will happen, sometimes nothing at all.

Civil is good, nervy isn't. Trainers describe a dog as civil when it is not equipment oriented but would take the human himself when necessary.

Nervy is usually used to describe a dog that lacks in confidence and is rather over reactive
Weak nerves, is when it takes a dog longer time to recover from a bad experience/exposure
Sharp doesn't have to do with having weak nerves, sharp means reacts quickly with determination and has to do with threshold more than with nerves.

To finish my post, am learning too and would love to be corrected by the experienced if my understanding isn't very correct, nice post

Susie 

For me a good civil dog is serious (does not flash at the smallest provocation), stable and clearheaded (appropriateness of response to situation).
 

A nervy dog is none of the above most especially clearheaded. They often show aggression that is inappropriate to the level of the threat. Their aggression comes from fear not strength.

 

Close your eyes and listen when the dog is being worked. The voice almost always tells you where the dog is working from. Is the voice saying its you and me -mano on mano - and I'm going to kick your ass or is the voice saying often with a slightly high hysterical edge - oh crap please go away and lets get this over with, I really don't want to run and I'm trying to hold on but... with various permutations between those to but you can always hear strength if you but listen.

 Defensive drives (now referred to as civil) generally take time to develop and mature often not truly exhibiting until after the age of two. Also that development can be stunted  if too much time is spent working a young dog in prey imho.

 

What age of dog are you speaking of and what behaviors does the dog exhibit? Do you have video?
 

One more thing regarding the term nervy. You understand its meaning from where it comes. If a trainer is talking about a dog's bite and says the dog is nervy he most probably means the dog's bite grip isn't full like when bite comes out of full prey. A dog that looses in its bite, say it goes down to 80% or 70% is sometimes described as nervy which is not desirable in sport but might still be good in real life situation, not full grip shears off flesh/meat, I wouldn't like it on my body 

There is also the view point that some of the older model shepherds were selectively bred for social ( civil ) aggression that was triggered by something other than defense. There is a littany well known dogs who showed direct social aggression: Zorro V Laager Wall, Omar Blatenskeho Zamku, Navar Hronovsky Pramen, Nero Udoli Ediny

LOL mithuna.
Good answers everyone else.

Mithuana,

I am not talking about the dogs you named above, I don't know them. I speak in general.
How can you know the one who describes a dog as civil or has good agression etc etc understands what he is seeing infront of him. A ordinary dog owner/enthusiast would think a low threshold drivey dog is the best hard civil dog !!!!!!
Moreover, so far I haven't seen the experienced and educated agree on definitions !!!!

Ibrahim,

While I will agree with you that sharp is probably about threshold it does have a component of nerves to since the nervy dog is not clearheaded or stable and sharpness usually is an inappropriate response to a situation. I also think it is a matter of confidence - too little or too much.

It is far more common to find sharp shy dogs than sharp dominant dogs. Neither is desirable tho the latter usually are at least predictable in their behavior. OP a classic example of a sharp shy dog is one that will dart in behind you to bite you in the leg, heel or ass. They lack courage to face the opponent head on.

True appropriate confidence brings a quiet strength that does not demand a quick or inappropriate response. The best pack leaders I have seen all had that quiet confidence that preempted violence.