The legacy of Herr Herman Martin - was it for the better or worse for the GSD - Page 3

" Let’s please get back to the topic of this post - better or worse." 

Totally agree!!!!!!!!!

Mackenzie, sorry, but I didn´t know that my English is that bad...

Mac: " Sorry Susie but you have got it wrong again. People were sanctioned, suppressed and lost money when their view was different from Herr Martin. The situation then was as it is today at the SV and it’s called sweeping under the carpet. Nothing was brought out into the open then and today."

In this case we seem to live on different planets - Only people who try to make a living out of this great breed were and are able to loose any money -the "small" breeders and handlers NEVER made a living out of their dogs, but they cared and still care about the breed. They don´t tend to use "the flavor of the day" but good dogs - and there still are thousands out there. They don´t loose money because they earn their money with regular jobs and German Shepherd dogs are their hobby. They don´t need to sell, and they don´t need to achieve a VA rating - most of them love their dogs...

Mac: "First you say that the change started with Chris Rummel and now you say that it started after the 2^nd world war some 20 ears earlier. I suppose you are right on both counts."

Rummel supported Martin, he made him what he was later on. During this time the color, the temperament, the angulations changed more visibly, but the change of the breed in itself started after WW II, when people wanted to own Rintintin, but weren´t able to handle a working dog.

Mac: "The dog that you present as an example, Rolf v Osnabrucker Land, was a good looking dog in his day but his pedigree was not correct. You mention four dogs from the Martin’s but there were other good dogs around too."

I didn´t mention these dogs because I think they were good dogs ( I have seen better dogs...), I tried to explain, that these "great" dogs were MADE BY FUNK AND RUMMEL, Martin was the breeder, but during that time Martin didn´t have the power to promote them. Who is the bad guy: The promoting judge or the breeder ?????????

Mac: "In East Germany and other countries that were under the yoke of the USSR people were poor with empty shelves in the shops and very few jobs (probably something that you have never experienced)."

That´s exactly what I said...
Susie: " Eastern Europe was different, people over there weren´t interested in "pets" that much ( no money, different cultural background ) - but during the last 25 years even they learned fast....."

Mac: "The subject of this post is was Herr Martin’s legacy for better or worse and if you think that it was really for the better then come out and say so. My position in this debate is the it was for the worse."

You really don´t know me... I didn´t like the Martin brothers ( I hated this kind of salesmenship ), I don´t like dog dealers/brokers, I don´t like kennels with 15+ adult dogs in it, I don´t like the amounts of money good or bad dogs are sold for, I don´t like the buying and selling in itself, I don´t like breeding mediocre dogs with mediocre temperament....

What I do like: Dogs looking like German Shepherd dogs behaving like German Shepherd dogs

I only tried to explain, that Hermann Martin was not the devil, but a smart breeder and a clever leader, not better or worse than the presidents before or past him. The eighties have been the time of globalization ( although Rummel, not Martin founded the later WUSV ). He was the perfect salesman for the breed.

Do I like this? NO. Did most of the people want this? YES

Okay now ?????

Susie - thank you for your more detailed explanations.  I appreciate it.  Well done for coming forward again.  Keep posting.

Mackenzie

blitz, if you can't back up yr wild claim, then just say so

instead you answer with an even bigger unsubstantiated claim in the form of a personal attack.

who said? '' do me this favor, keep the GSD a working breed''  The membership as a mass must keep the breed complete. this will be difficult as all of our modern cultures want to see every child who competes get a trophy. thank God for terrorist, felons, and drug dealers for keeping our breed relevant. thank God for Malis keeping pressure on us! 

Once again vvk4gsd has nothing to contribute or stick to topic of this thread.  I really wish that Mr Darcy would block him.

To the new poster any comments that you can make to the subject of this thread will be appreciated instead of the type of contribution from your first post.

Mackenzie

New poster ?  What new poster ?  LOL

If you refer to 'GSDStudent', it might be the first contribution to this thred;

but otherwise nothing 'new'.  And I for one agree,  it is relevant to quote Max on

that point ... people can tend to overlook that, in their search both for a 'perfect pet'

in the 'right' physical form they like to look at;  and as 'things to win with', at their peril

and to the loss of the breed.  Plus it does no harm to remind vk, who is

always scathing about Max, that whatever he thinks Max was reponsible

for, he did still say and believe that the dog should be kept able to work.

Another thing:  since Susie 's a German and a Shepherdite, who has lived

through the Martin years, at least some of which were in her home country ?

(sorry Suze, don't remember what years you've said you were over in the US)

I would be inclined to think she knows what she is talking about. 

Seen from a few miles away over the Channel,  the span of years when the breed

was heavily influenced by both Martin brothers felt very much like the breed was 

moving forward, rather than stagnating OR suffering.  I did not notice all that many

GSD people (anywhere) objecting vociferously AT THE TIME to what was being done.

It is SO easy to have 20/20 hindsight, and start laying blame for this or that development

after the fact.  The trouble is, that leads to scapegoating, and to really quite pointless debates

like this thred - as Blitzen was saying,  it is water under the bridge,  the breed is as it is

NOW and the people involved with it NOW are responsible for what the GSD is and what it

will become.

The GSD today have  many , many healh problems,very  commercial,and 99 percent are terrible IPO point dogs and looks very unnatural.

The GSD in the earlier looks more natural and healthier and was more made for a REAL working dog

and  tough jobs

The GSD in the earlier days destroy the poor GSD breed today.

Once again vvk4gsd has nothing to contribute or stick to topic of this thread.  I really wish that Mr Darcy would block him.

Amen to that, MacKenzie!!! 

This thread has value I think, but these sorts of subjects always lead to workingline people never missing the opportunity to dump on showlines. Bulletin......neither are in great shape.