Breeding Question - Page 1

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by blueskyekennels on 24 September 2006 - 21:09

Hi All, My stud is preparing to breed to a first time female. My stud is over two years old, and has sired three litters, I consider him expiranced. The female is two, this is her fourth heat cycle, but when they brought her over on her 9th day, she looked ready, was willing, but every time my stud mounted, it looked like her back legs were buckling...I have been breeding Golden Retrievers for six years, and have never seen this happen before. The female's parents both recieved a "GOOD" on their hips, and the female seems to be in excellent condition, I don't think HD or ED is the problem. The female is now on her 11th day, and the owners plan on bringing her over tomorrow (Monday, 9-25-06), on her 12th day. If her legs continue to buckle should we give it up for a lost cause? I was thinking of having the female stay a couple of nights and see if anything changes. So far, according to her owners, her vulva discharge is a Straw yellow. With MAYBE the SLIGHTEST hint of pink. My dogs have always bred after the 14th day, up to the 19th, so I'm not concerned. Should I let the female stay here to comfort the owners? My male has been trying, devotedly, and he has sired three litters, so I don't think it's him...Could I be wrong? My male will NOT have access to her all day, so they won't wear themselves out, only twice a day will they be allowed to TRY. If they actually tie, they will be seperated for at least 24 hours. Is there any reason to be concerned? Any suggestions? Thanks, and if you want to email me privatly you may do so as well, Krista blueskyekennels@msn.com

Bob-O

by Bob-O on 24 September 2006 - 21:09

Krista, without seeing hip or elbow certifications one cannot be sure whether they are good, regardless of the parent's results. But enough lecturing on that subject. The bitch needs human assistance during this mating. I presume that she is much smaller (twenty pounds or so) than the male. If so, you need to assist with the breeding by placing supports under her so she can safely support the weight of the male. Many firm pillows and cushions stacked to the correct height should suffice. Because of the size difference the male may also be "missing" the target. If that is the case then the supporting pillows may need to be stacked even higher so her rear end is higher than normal from the ground. Is the male attempting penetration but unsuccessful? Is there a partial penetration that is very painful due to a stricture just past the vulva? Your veterinarian should place a clean surgical glove on his/her hand, lubricate the bitch's vulva with some KY jelly and gently test how "tight" the vulva is, and whether a stricture exists. If a stricture is present is can cause undue pain during penetration and cause her to try to get away any way that she can. It can be removed very easily. Since you have successfully bred dogs before, then you know the rest of the story. The discharge will change from straw colour to a darker colour with reddish/pink hue. (I am colourblind so I have to watch for the darker tint.) I think that you should consult with your veterinarian for further assistance, as he/she may offer to physically assist with the breeding. Been there-done that, Bob-O

by gsdlvr2 on 24 September 2006 - 22:09

Hi Krista, What I do ,is who ever is managing the bitches head puts one knee under her in front of her back legs and keeps her back end from collapse until they are no longer tied. I don't know this bitch { obviously } but I would keep an eye on her mouth as well just to be safe

by blueskyekennels on 24 September 2006 - 22:09

Hi Bob-O, Actually the female is only about 5 lbs under my male...We are just assuming she isn't ready. I did have them take her to the vet, and the main problem seems to be, that the muscles in her vulva aren't responcive. They checked everything, and on the tenth day, she was close, so she should be ready soon. My male is unaccoustomed to needing help, so when we try to approach, he jumps off, and will sit and lick and sniff her, thats it. My male recently had his hips and elbows done, we are awaiting results. The female had Unoffical x-rays done on her hips, the owners didn't bother to send them in, but on the opinion of two different vets, they looked to be Good, so that seemed to suffice for the owners I guess. Yes, my male is attempting to penitrate, but is a little high on his mark. When my male would even lick her, her back legs would start to buckle...he didn't even apply weight to her, just licked her. Her tail would flag, but it would slightly go back down when he tried to mount, which makes me assume she wasn't ready. We are planning to try on her 12th day, monday, and see what happens. I'll keep you updated. Krista blueskyekennels@msn.com

by SGBH on 24 September 2006 - 22:09

You might want to try progesterone testing to determine when the female is ovulating and when the optimum time for breed attempts should be. Since each female is different, this would take the guess work out. Stephen

Bob-O

by Bob-O on 24 September 2006 - 22:09

Thanks Krista. I did not realize there was little difference in physical size as I am accustomed to a normal, larger difference. From the behaviour described in your post, she is not yet ready. And her heat cycle may not be "normal", i.e. she may have a "split" heat cycle. The best way to determine if she is really ready is to have some blood drawn for a progesterone level test. I know that all of this sounds like a lot of trouble especially when dogs seem to be able to "do it" just fine when we do not want them to. During the first time she is unsure about what she is supposed to do, and is relying solely on her instincts. If she manages a successful tie, then it will be much easier next time. Experienced females become quite randy girls during successive heats. Bob-O

by gsdlvr2 on 24 September 2006 - 22:09

Bob-O "split heat cycle"? please define

by gsdlvr2 on 24 September 2006 - 23:09

the female I am thinking of was ready.......medically speaking. she just wasn't into it and had to be assisted. they had great puppies . I think this one never would be ready without help but it all worked out with help

by DKiah on 24 September 2006 - 23:09

I am a firm believer in progesterone testing, you can't really be sure what day she is on in her cycle, so you don't know when she will ovulate ... we can guess based on when we see bleeding first off.. It has been my experience that most girls are ready way later into the cycle than we think.. my last 2 breedings were actually done on days 16 and 18, according to my count .... but they took and both litters had 7 pups!! Is there no progesterone testing available in your area?? So, I agree with Bob-O in that, she is probably not ready and is being the tiniest bit unreceptive.. a female who is ready will plant her legs and often times tilt her pelvis to receive the male.. And there are those who need some help.. regardless of their size I always support the girl..... Your male needs to get used to you being there, at least quietly in the beginning and he can.. he is young... he is disnmounting more than likely because she doesn't feel quite ready yet... Good luck

Bob-O

by Bob-O on 25 September 2006 - 00:09

Gsdlvr2, the "split" heat cycle must really be annoying for the owner. The bitch essentially comes into heat and everything seems normal, but she does not ovulate and the cycle seems to end, yet start again about two (2) or three (3) weeks after the first notice of bleeding. This is not a real problem unless it is unknown and the bitch is shipped away for breeding. I understand that sometimes these bitches do stabilize and have normal cycles. I have never owned one like this, but I do have one who has an erratic cycle of roughly every ten (10) months instead of the normal 4 1/2 (four & one-half) to five (5) months. I know there are others on this forum who can provide better detail than me about this subject. Bob-O





 


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