schIII/police dog - Page 1

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by makgas on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

i know this topic has been discussed previously in one form or another, but here we go again. the more i go to trials and witness dog performances, the more i'm tempted to conclude that schutzhund, at least in the u.s., is basically leading to another type of breed quite diffferent from that described by stephanitz; i'm appalled at how many dogs get pronounced in the courage test, when i can't see more than a pretty calculated move that leads to perfection and synchronization of movements... where is the real dog? my questions , what percentage of schIII dogs are suitable for working the streets and be thrown into crack houses to do their job? why are we breeding sport dogs and not real dogs? is it because the real dog can't perform as well in the field, so we're basically breeding out favorable working traits in lieu of a more manageable dog? i noticed also people like real dogs, the one that doesn't out, the stubborn sob, the one that scares the helper... the one that can bite for real, and gets under your aprong and pushes you while trying to get on your face, but you know what? almost no one owns that type of dog... some people seem to brag about having this type of dog... the competitive handler doesn't seem to care much for these things; he wants the points, so he breeds for point dogs... and this is what we got who breeds the real dog nowadays? it feels like schuzthund is just that, a sport, not a true test of the working abilities of the dog anymore; some protection routines i've witnessed on dogs advertised as super dogs, are just jokes, kosta

4pack

by 4pack on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

MAKGAS we didn't have crack houses in Stephanitz's day. Some people breed points dogs and some breed street civil dogs. It's all a matter of what you want. People tend to breed what the are looking for and need. How many people "need" a man eater?

4pack

by 4pack on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

Also Sch people aren't claiming their dogs to be police K-9 material. If you don't appretiate Shutzhund for the sport it is, don't buy a shutzhund dog. I myself prefer a dog that will bite a hidden sleave or a suit. It's all in the training. Try PSA but don't bag on Shutzhund. It's disrespectful and the dogs only do as the are trained. :)~ Although plenty of Sch dogs will bite for real.

by makgas on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

not talking about a man eater; the crack house was just an example; crack houses is but one example of what we have in our big cities today... not sure what schiii dog today would be suitable for that type of work... The german shepherd is being bred today for sport, not for work, so the working genes are slowly disappearing. i'll pose the question in a different way; how many of you guys out there, owners of a schIII dog would feel comfortable venturing in an inner city, say new york, newark... with your dog...

by makgas on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

i'm not talking about schutzhund people or k-9 people here 4pack; i'm talking about the german shepherd dog... i don't think you got my point...

by makgas on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

And i think schutzhund is an incredible sport; i just don't like where it's going to

by Uglydog on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

Makgas, I caught 3 kinds of hell for making this supposition, so what gives? (Im ribbing you here pal) but it is an interesting discussion. In all seriousness, what has happened in 30 years? At 1 time, this SCH cert was a true working dog cert, I guess its gone too mainstream and dare I say watered down?, to where its now become a sport? Someone mentioned something about POlice trials and/or PSA so maybe those are the venues to see this kind of dog?!.

Vom Brunhaus

by Vom Brunhaus on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

If your looking for a real gas on fire you can go to the KNPV dogs, they sure know how to hit and no problems goin air-borne at ya. Czech and some Malinois are hi drive babies also. A lot of K9 units think this is their answer, I dont always agree. I like dogs that can do the work with calm nerves and grips.

by Kougar on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

The problem is - when you breed a litter which ends up being serious civil dog who are capable of doing sport or police work - what do you DO with them????? People in this country do not want or need that type of dog!!!!!!!!! It is hard enough to place good pups even in sport homes - the harder core more civilly aggressive dog is too much for most handlers to deal with in todays positive/halti using cookie training world - and domestically bred European working line pups just do not have the cachet of an imported dog. There are not enough acceptable [to me] homes for these dogs as 8 week old pups to breed another litter like that!!!

4pack

by 4pack on 18 August 2006 - 16:08

I very much agree with your point actually. Society and things are changing and I think thats where we get ASR, PSA and other sports popping up these days. Should we expect the rules of Schutzhund to change with the times? Thats another topic. I don't see shutzhund as going down hill but the laymens need for harder dogs, increasing maybe. I wouldn't buy a sch dog as a personal protection dog myself. I want a dog to bite the bad guy, not the equiptment. Unless I see a dog on a table, in the box or bite a decoy with a hidden sleeve, I'm going to assume he is equiptment oriented period.





 


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