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by Preston on 18 September 2008 - 02:09
The roach back (ie upward bowed arch back) is a separate and distinct problem from the faulty rear ends, which are commonly referred to as overangulated. Technically the problem is typically lower thigh bones that are too long (which creates "sickle hocks" which won't open-they look like a scyth sweeping from the side). Roach backs were selectively bred as an over compensation for the long and weak backs of Rolf Onsnabruckerland (Rolf had exceptional working temperament, but the long flexible, weak backs he produced seriously limited the working ability of a certain percentage of his progeny and was identified as a very serious fault). The GSD has always had a serious problem with either long excessively flexing backs or backs that are weak at a certain point such as right behind the withers. The roach back is a quick and faulty breeding solution for this and can actually add steepness to the croup, making the dog rollup of the rump, causing an imbalance between the front and rear, often resulting in a hitch in the rear that can look like HD.
It is very difficult to breed a GSD with a short, strong back that is relatively straight as specified in the standard. It is a major current flaw in a high percentage of SL and WL dogs, including the top competitors. The roach back problem is also a very serious problem, but if it is not too pronounced can be quite easily covered up with a lot of conditioning on a tight lead pulling, and then showing the GSD on a tight lead in the showring. If the roach is too pronounced the result is a front that drops under power of the rear drive and roll-up of the rump, either of which can create pounding or padding in front and impair movement making it less efficient. Germans demand strong backs and now tend to favor roaches as a form of insurance against a GSD "breaking down" in the back. Over time through selective incremental perceptual drift, they have come to actually see serious roach backs as okay and even normal, when they actually are an aberration to the standard and cause the GSD to look grossly distorted.
by Blitzen on 18 September 2008 - 02:09
Hi Preston, that makes sense. I think I read a similar explanation from Lanting. For very action there is a reaction?Thanks!
by justcurious on 18 September 2008 - 03:09
thanks preston now i'm beginning to understand what i've been seeing.
by darylehret on 21 September 2008 - 06:09
"Haven't seen the COI's yet on any, working or show, but I suspect there has been more linebreeding in its purest sense going on here that most realize since all seem to go back to the same 125 or so foundation dogs. I think many of those foundation dogs may also have been closely related to one another. " ~Blitzen
I forgot about this founder diagram, from a Czech/Slovak source.
"According to Wooten (1988) the 1936 Korbuch had 96% of the males and 76.5% of the females coming via Klodo lines, mostly Utz." ~ Willis (1990)
by London on 16 February 2009 - 21:02
by Trafalgar on 16 February 2009 - 22:02
At the time, many received it with suspicion. They refused to take outcrossing to unregistered dogs seriously and many responded with not outright vitriol at the very notion.
Nowadays, when re-reading his article one can congratulate him on his prescience - as well as his Seppala Sleddog Project.
These issues are universal to all dog breeds.
The funny thing is that this topic is just now, within the last five years or so, even being talked about to a real extent.
Here's Bragg's article if interested.
It is simple enough for the layman yet sophisticated enough to be hold one's interest (imo).
www.netpets.com/dogs/healthspa/bragg.html
by Two Moons on 16 February 2009 - 22:02
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