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by Fida on 18 November 2004 - 12:11

Why are all working line dogs sable or black but never the traditional black and red. Very unlike show dogs. and how come i never see a black or sable winning honors in the show ring

by Alex Mathew on 18 November 2004 - 13:11

Good Question Fida I am interested to see the answers on this board

by Charlie Ivory on 18 November 2004 - 15:11

Fida, I think part of your answer lies in your post Very unlike show dogs. and how come i never see a black or sable winning honors in the show ring Most DDR dogs are very dark pigment, Most showlines dogs are your traditional Black and tan. Almost like another breed of dog huh? Not much of an answer but it's about all I have for you.

by eichenluft on 18 November 2004 - 15:11

<> Back at 'cha - Why are all show line dogs black and red, but almost never the DOMINANT COLOR OF ALL GSDs sable? Very unlike working dogs, who have been bred for usefulness, not show-pretty - therefore NOT breeding OUT the dominant color of the BREED! "Traditional" color for the show ring is black and red, "Traditional" color for the GSD BREED is sable! (black/red, black/tan, and black are always recessive to sable - in every GSD bloodline.) And how come I never see a black and red winning honors in the working trials? eh?

by Mike Russell on 18 November 2004 - 16:11

Well, you will see black & tan or bicolor working lines as well...those two are more common than solid black. The black & red is an offshoot of black & tan and has been selected for and "dyed" to get as well. Let's go a step further with a question for you... Why do the showlines insist on having a non functional structure?

by Kougar on 18 November 2004 - 16:11

Sable is the original color of the breed. Fashionable has become predominant, but I disagree with the word "traditional". That is only a manmade direction taken in the show ring. "Correct" structure as prized for the show ring may be able to trot pretty, but "form follows function" and that is not the most functional structure and athletic ability is counter to fashion.

KYLE

by KYLE on 18 November 2004 - 17:11

Working dog trainers are more concerned about the WORKING ability of the GSD. Correct comfirmation in the GSD is important to working dog trainers as well. If the dog is not structurally sound it can pass an AD or handle the rigors associated with the jump, A-frame or grip work. Black and Red color does not translate into full calm grips, sound nerves and good defence. A Rolls Royce looks pretty but it can't corner or accelerate like a Porche no matter what modifications you make to it. My next comment is going to bother some folks but, oh well. I think the real question should be which is more difficult and requires more time to train for, The Ring or the Trial Field? Once that question is answered there is your motivation for accepting less in all things but aesthetics? Just my 2 cents. Kyle

KYLE

by KYLE on 18 November 2004 - 17:11

OOPS! "If the dog is not structurally sound it CAN NOT pass an AD or handle the rigors associated with the jump, A-frame or grip work."

by hodie on 18 November 2004 - 17:11

For what it is worth, I do not think continually generalizing is useful. The bottom line is that there are show lines that can work and do very well, and there are working line bloodline dogs that can and have done well in the ring. We had a very prominent SV Körmeister, Conformation Judge and Trial Judge for a trial, show and Körung. He placed one grey sable dog first in one class, and, had one newbie known more about showing, it was clear his black sable male of DDR bloodlines would have won his class. We also had a show line female get her SchH3 and he was a tough judge. It is my personal opinion that many dogs are not properly trained, either for work or show, or too soon dismissed as dogs who can not do either. The other thing one must decide for ones self is what kind of dog one wants and what one will do with it. But there are dogs who can do either and sound structure does not automatically mean lack of working ability and working ability does not automatically mean lack of sound structure. Of course, there are those who would prefer extremes in any arena or for that matter, any endeavor in life. This is just my opinion and submitted as an alternative view.

by simona on 18 November 2004 - 17:11

Hi, it¿s not true that GSDs from working bloodlines are only sable or black. I have black and red coloured GSD male from old working lines. He has titles ZVV1, ZVV2, ZVV3, IPO1, IPO2, IPO3, SchH1, SchH2, SchH3 and some special titles. His sire was black and red, his mother too. Step brother of my dog is black and red and he is one of best dogs in our country (participant of FCI, WUSV and National Championships). But .... I¿m from Czech republic and I know that if somebody from USA wants to buy GSD in Czech he prefer sable or black color. Maybe that is why in USA are most working dog sable or black. Second true is that if dog is beautiful and correct with standard but sable or black he never get VA neither V on show in our country.





 


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